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I can see why you're getting downvoted, but sadly (as a Catholic-sort of) I think you're right. It now seems to me that the Catholic Church's hierarchy is catas

I can see why you're getting downvoted, but sadly (as a Catholic-sort of) I think you're right. It now seems to me that the Catholic Church's hierarchy is catastrophically flawed. I see this as quite separate from lay Catholics, who somehow aren't outraged by all this, but I guess more due to cognitive deficits than actual acceptance. Catholic Church has an intransparent, rigid hierarchy built on secrecy and obedience, and apparently severely lacking in the morals department. It has a lot of trust and a high cross-section for interaction with the general public (in Catholic countries at least), in particular children. Celibacy (a social, not biblical concept), probably doesn't help. In Poland, which you quote, the majority of priests found to be sex offenders against children, were not found to have paedophilic tendencies in subsequent psychiatric evaluations, rather chose children as easy victims. Controlling for all these features, I remain unconvinced that there is something particularly wrong about religion itself in this organisation. Abuse of children and other weaker members of the society has sadly been a hallmark of large organisations (e.g. abuse by Oxfam employees in Haiti), it's just that most organisations lack either the reach, or the rigid structure of CC. As an aside, I wouldn't use Russia Today as a source for anything meaningful, certainly not when it's about Poland; if ever there was an axe to grind, surely it's there.

webmobdev 5y ago
I didn't think anyone would interpret my text as an attack on catholics or christianity, but I can see how some may be perceiving it like that. Yes, ofcourse, this isn't a religious problem of Christianity or Catholicism but due to the current structure of the Vatican. It's not as if Protestant churches, or Hindu ashrams or Muslim Jamaaths don't have such incidents. But the absolute scale of it in the catholic church is a clear indicator that there is something very wrong with their organisation.
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ashtonkem 5y ago
> I see this as quite separate from lay Catholics, who somehow aren't outraged by all this, but I guess more due to cognitive deficits than actual acceptance. Survivorship bias. Most of the Catholics who are outraged about this probably stopped being Catholic. Those who are publicly outraged and still believe are probably in the minority.
- geerlingguy 5y ago
  Most of the Catholics who are still 'practicing' that I know are fully outraged as well, and work to improve the lay boards and civil integration in legal processes. The outcomes today are vastly different than 15-20 years ago. Priests being shuffled around quietly while a bishop settles with the family was a frequent occurrence just a couple decades ago. Nowadays that is suicide. Sadly, not all parts of the Church/world are there, but at least in most corners of the US/Europe, it is that way. Incidence of abuse has been extremely curtailed, and all these studies showing the opposite are reaching back into the 50s-80s, where abuse was rife.
  - busterarm 5y ago
    Unfortunately the Catholic Church's attitude towards dealing with past mistakes is still one of hostility. I used to write software and optimize advertising for personal injury & mass tort lawfirms. The one that I worked at was building a major class action case against the Catholic Church. The volume of inbound leads that we had from all across the United States was enormous. A good six-digit number of them were qualified. There were priests in my Catholic Schools that had been on the accused list. One was even from a classmate of mine. The Catholic Church was ruthless about negotiating down the damage. Basically their position was that they would fight every case in the US or they would settle all cases in the Archdiocese of New York that took place in Manhattan (a pitifully small number but an area in the US where the Church has a lot of money). It was purely about the money. The law firm took the easy way out for the amount of resources that they wanted to commit. I probably listened to hundreds of calls where grown men were crying talking about how absolutely shattered their lives were. Only for my employer to turn around and say "sorry, we can't help you.". I no longer do work for PI/mass tort firms and as a direct result of this.

webmobdev 5y ago

I didn't think anyone would interpret my text as an attack on catholics or christianity, but I can see how some may be perceiving it like that. Yes, ofcourse, this isn't a religious problem of Christianity or Catholicism but due to the current structure of the Vatican. It's not as if Protestant churches, or Hindu ashrams or Muslim Jamaaths don't have such incidents. But the absolute scale of it in the catholic church is a clear indicator that there is something very wrong with their organisation.

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ashtonkem 5y ago

> I see this as quite separate from lay Catholics, who somehow aren't outraged by all this, but I guess more due to cognitive deficits than actual acceptance. Survivorship bias. Most of the Catholics who are outraged about this probably stopped being Catholic. Those who are publicly outraged and still believe are probably in the minority.

geerlingguy 5y ago
Most of the Catholics who are still 'practicing' that I know are fully outraged as well, and work to improve the lay boards and civil integration in legal processes. The outcomes today are vastly different than 15-20 years ago. Priests being shuffled around quietly while a bishop settles with the family was a frequent occurrence just a couple decades ago. Nowadays that is suicide. Sadly, not all parts of the Church/world are there, but at least in most corners of the US/Europe, it is that way. Incidence of abuse has been extremely curtailed, and all these studies showing the opposite are reaching back into the 50s-80s, where abuse was rife.
- busterarm 5y ago
  Unfortunately the Catholic Church's attitude towards dealing with past mistakes is still one of hostility. I used to write software and optimize advertising for personal injury & mass tort lawfirms. The one that I worked at was building a major class action case against the Catholic Church. The volume of inbound leads that we had from all across the United States was enormous. A good six-digit number of them were qualified. There were priests in my Catholic Schools that had been on the accused list. One was even from a classmate of mine. The Catholic Church was ruthless about negotiating down the damage. Basically their position was that they would fight every case in the US or they would settle all cases in the Archdiocese of New York that took place in Manhattan (a pitifully small number but an area in the US where the Church has a lot of money). It was purely about the money. The law firm took the easy way out for the amount of resources that they wanted to commit. I probably listened to hundreds of calls where grown men were crying talking about how absolutely shattered their lives were. Only for my employer to turn around and say "sorry, we can't help you.". I no longer do work for PI/mass tort firms and as a direct result of this.