3 ms·

The rant is a much better read and insight into the reason for this: https://github.com/csdvrx/sixel-tmux/blob/main/RANTS.md https://github.com/csdvrx/sixel-tmu

The rant is a much better read and insight into the reason for this: https://github.com/csdvrx/sixel-tmux/blob/main/RANTS.md https://github.com/csdvrx/sixel-tmux/blob/main/RANTS.md

echelon 5y ago
This is such a good read. I hope this person goes far and gets wider support for this. I really like their project and their motivation. > Sorry guys, but I don't want you to hold Linux terminal users hostage for your petty concerns over what is the "right" way to do something like sixels. [...] It's something that has been done successfully for over 30 years. ... > Still, you could successfully block sixel support by having control over the terminal emulators or the libraries. Ok, but now, try to prevent your users from running sixel-tmux! ... > Also, you guys like to say that the only voices that matters are from those who can code? Hmm, ok for that too. Let's see how you like the code I release to show the pointlessness of your petty fights, and free your users from your questionable decisions. Also, I wasn't familiar with the term "sixel". They've been around since DEC introduced them in the 80's: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixel
- speeddemon 5y ago
  >This is such a good read. I really like their project and their motivation. I can't agree. Like most rants, I found it to be very needlessly emotional, lacking in the technical department, and motivating towards the wrong goal (trying to fight and argue with maintainers, accusing them of negative things like "holding users hostage", etc) rather than doing the right thing for users (delivering new and useful features in a way that isn't broken). I wish open source programmers would make less rants and emotionally-driven forks, it's not helpful to someone like me who just wants to get something new like images in their terminal. The issues in the GNOME/WT bug trackers are what actually contain technical information. And just from looking at that, it appears there is an open development branch for VTE that contains sixel support: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/vte/-/issues/253 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/vte/-/issues/253 So if you use GNOME, I would say just use that and work on that, the quality is going to be better than the degraded functionality you get from de-rasterizing. In my opinion, it would be better from a technical standpoint if the author just wanted to work on that, or wanted to work on getting it implemented proper in WT. The degraded-image approach used by this tmux fork is unusable for the cited use case of getting nice graphs in the terminal, and I can't see how it's going to make it any easier for those other terminals to solve the real technical issues with sixel. Edit: I also want to respond to this comment in the rant: >What will happen as Wayland replaces X? Nothing? XTerm still works. But there is also a Wayland-native terminal called "Foot" that supports sixel, if that's your thing: https://codeberg.org/dnkl/foot https://codeberg.org/dnkl/foot 2nd edit: To those downvoting, please reply to me instead of doing that. If you disagree with me it would be better to know why so I could potentially change my view, a downvote communicates nothing of value towards changing my mind.
  - csdvrx 5y ago
    > I can't agree. Like most rants, I found it to be very emotional and lacking in the technical department It was an accurate assessment of the situation. Read @hpa technical analysis if you prefer, but you'll see he and I seem to concur: there's nothing technically wrong in sixels. > So if you use GNOME, I would say just use that and work on that The difference between you and I is you still believe what they say. I don't. And I question the motives of people associated with a project whose official stance is that it's acceptable to plan technical hurdles to prevent people from using themes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28559716 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28559716 > In my opinion, it would be better from a technical standpoint if the author just wanted to work on that I have no interest in wasting hours writing then submitting code to people who have put into writing the reasons why they are playing the clock against sixel support (as if I couldn't have read between the lines...), and who have said previously they would use their positions to veto the inclusion. By default, I no longer trust them. It's up to them to prove they have changed. In the meantime, sixel-tmux will exist to push for change, as a pebble in their shoe. > The degraded-image approach used by this tmux fork is unusable for the cited use case of getting nice graphs in the terminal, and I can't see how it's going to make it any easier for those other terminals to solve the real technical issues with sixel Don't be so focused on one format. There needs to be a foot in the door, after which other formats can be added. It's just a bootstrapping problem. Said differently, if tmux can understand sixels and store them into some internal representation, it's easy to convert from that into other formats as needed (iterm, kitty...) meaning others terminals will enjoy the graphical formats in pixel perfect quality, as long as they support at least one format. Meanwhile, gnome users will be left to wonder why they are left to deal with a derasterized output, and fingers will be pointed into the right direction. Maybe that will encourage the VTE team to do what the users want? If not, it will make it easier for alternatives to emerge (like "foot" for Wayland that was mentioned here) What I'm doing is totally a political move, I grant you that. > solve the real technical issues with sixel. THERE IS NO TECHNICAL ISSUE WITH SIXEL (!!) Try the nyancat linked below. Look at the FPS. 30 fps in the terminal is good enough for most uses. The only issue with sixel is some people hold personal grudges against it. Sorry, but I don't play ball with them anymore.
    - 5y ago

The rant is a much better read and insight into the reason for this: https://github.com/csdvrx/sixel-tmux/blob/main/RANTS.md https://github.com/csdvrx/sixel-tmux/blob/main/RANTS.md

echelon 5y ago

This is such a good read. I hope this person goes far and gets wider support for this. I really like their project and their motivation. > Sorry guys, but I don't want you to hold Linux terminal users hostage for your petty concerns over what is the "right" way to do something like sixels. [...] It's something that has been done successfully for over 30 years. ... > Still, you could successfully block sixel support by having control over the terminal emulators or the libraries. Ok, but now, try to prevent your users from running sixel-tmux! ... > Also, you guys like to say that the only voices that matters are from those who can code? Hmm, ok for that too. Let's see how you like the code I release to show the pointlessness of your petty fights, and free your users from your questionable decisions. Also, I wasn't familiar with the term "sixel". They've been around since DEC introduced them in the 80's: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixel

speeddemon 5y ago
>This is such a good read. I really like their project and their motivation. I can't agree. Like most rants, I found it to be very needlessly emotional, lacking in the technical department, and motivating towards the wrong goal (trying to fight and argue with maintainers, accusing them of negative things like "holding users hostage", etc) rather than doing the right thing for users (delivering new and useful features in a way that isn't broken). I wish open source programmers would make less rants and emotionally-driven forks, it's not helpful to someone like me who just wants to get something new like images in their terminal. The issues in the GNOME/WT bug trackers are what actually contain technical information. And just from looking at that, it appears there is an open development branch for VTE that contains sixel support: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/vte/-/issues/253 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/vte/-/issues/253 So if you use GNOME, I would say just use that and work on that, the quality is going to be better than the degraded functionality you get from de-rasterizing. In my opinion, it would be better from a technical standpoint if the author just wanted to work on that, or wanted to work on getting it implemented proper in WT. The degraded-image approach used by this tmux fork is unusable for the cited use case of getting nice graphs in the terminal, and I can't see how it's going to make it any easier for those other terminals to solve the real technical issues with sixel. Edit: I also want to respond to this comment in the rant: >What will happen as Wayland replaces X? Nothing? XTerm still works. But there is also a Wayland-native terminal called "Foot" that supports sixel, if that's your thing: https://codeberg.org/dnkl/foot https://codeberg.org/dnkl/foot 2nd edit: To those downvoting, please reply to me instead of doing that. If you disagree with me it would be better to know why so I could potentially change my view, a downvote communicates nothing of value towards changing my mind.
- csdvrx 5y ago
  > I can't agree. Like most rants, I found it to be very emotional and lacking in the technical department It was an accurate assessment of the situation. Read @hpa technical analysis if you prefer, but you'll see he and I seem to concur: there's nothing technically wrong in sixels. > So if you use GNOME, I would say just use that and work on that The difference between you and I is you still believe what they say. I don't. And I question the motives of people associated with a project whose official stance is that it's acceptable to plan technical hurdles to prevent people from using themes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28559716 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28559716 > In my opinion, it would be better from a technical standpoint if the author just wanted to work on that I have no interest in wasting hours writing then submitting code to people who have put into writing the reasons why they are playing the clock against sixel support (as if I couldn't have read between the lines...), and who have said previously they would use their positions to veto the inclusion. By default, I no longer trust them. It's up to them to prove they have changed. In the meantime, sixel-tmux will exist to push for change, as a pebble in their shoe. > The degraded-image approach used by this tmux fork is unusable for the cited use case of getting nice graphs in the terminal, and I can't see how it's going to make it any easier for those other terminals to solve the real technical issues with sixel Don't be so focused on one format. There needs to be a foot in the door, after which other formats can be added. It's just a bootstrapping problem. Said differently, if tmux can understand sixels and store them into some internal representation, it's easy to convert from that into other formats as needed (iterm, kitty...) meaning others terminals will enjoy the graphical formats in pixel perfect quality, as long as they support at least one format. Meanwhile, gnome users will be left to wonder why they are left to deal with a derasterized output, and fingers will be pointed into the right direction. Maybe that will encourage the VTE team to do what the users want? If not, it will make it easier for alternatives to emerge (like "foot" for Wayland that was mentioned here) What I'm doing is totally a political move, I grant you that. > solve the real technical issues with sixel. THERE IS NO TECHNICAL ISSUE WITH SIXEL (!!) Try the nyancat linked below. Look at the FPS. 30 fps in the terminal is good enough for most uses. The only issue with sixel is some people hold personal grudges against it. Sorry, but I don't play ball with them anymore.
  - 5y ago