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This reminds me of Superfest (German for super hard) glass [1] which was produced in East Germany. It was optimized for durability so bars, pubs, restaurants, e

by HMH 5y ago

This reminds me of Superfest (German for super hard) glass [1] which was produced in East Germany. It was optimized for durability so bars, pubs, restaurants, etc. didn't need to constantly buy new drinking glasses. But sadly after reunification production ceased as capitalism has no need for drinking glasses that do not break. [1]: https://digitalcosmonaut.com/2020/superfest-ceverit-glass-ddr/ https://digitalcosmonaut.com/2020/superfest-ceverit-glass-dd...

BostonEnginerd 5y ago
The Superfest glass process is very similar to what is used to produce Gorilla glass. The glass is heated up and submerged in or sprayed with a potassium solution. The hot glass matrix opens up enough for potassium ions to diffuse into it. When the glass cools, the potassium ions are trapped creating a lot of internal stress. This internal stress helps the glass to resist being scratched or broken —- until it fails catastrophically. :-)
- christkv 5y ago
  Yeah I remember having one of those glasses and it literally blew up lol.
- GravitasFailure 5y ago
  The strength that those stresses add is mind boggling. Smarter Every Day[0] did a video on Prince Rupert's Drops, which have similar internal stresses, and he demonstrates their strength by shooting a drop with a .22 rifle. [0]https://youtu.be/xe-f4gokRBs https://youtu.be/xe-f4gokRBs
adriancr 5y ago
This looks like lack of product-market fit, very common with a lot of communist products. From reading article it does break, but not that easy... If they're too expensive and breaking is not really an issue/not fully solved then it's not a good fit for bars or homes. It would need to find a market that needs such properties and doesn't already have better products. I'm struggling to think of one.
- callmeal 5y ago
  > This looks like lack of product-market fit, very common with a lot of communist products. IOW, communist products were not planned for forced obsolescense?
  - adriancr 5y ago
    > IOW, communist products were not planned for forced obsolescense? Can you detail how forced obsolescence applies? I detailed in comment above how this communist glass wasn't better at least for bars/pubs/homes. - These glasses also broke, just a bit harder. - Breaking isn't a big issue (it's not common at least in bars/pubs or homes). I can count on one hand the glasses I've broken in my life. - it was more expensive to produce As for other markets, there are better products (secured glass for cars/home windows, gorilla glass for phones, etc) This is just the sort of idea that worked well during communist party meetings and got implemented... too bad it was a waste of money, but hey, can't argue with the party.
    - refenestrator 5y ago
      Market failures are real, and society is poorer if we churn through more stuff that breaks instead of less stuff that holds up. Ideology is a mind killer -- if this weren't attached to the word communist you'd probably be agreeing, yeah, too bad people won't use the durable glasses and waste energy replacing less durable ones.
      - adriancr 5y ago
        > society is poorer if we churn through more stuff that breaks instead of less stuff that holds up. What I'm saying is that there's a reason why these failed. I see you are very attached to these glasses and their benefits and capitalism failed them. So, let's dig into them a bit more: First issue: - These glasses are equivalent to tempered glass. (similar to gorilla glass) - tempered glass shatters explosively when a more durable material touches it. Would you keep glasses like this at home?, I wouldn't. Second issue: - It STILL breaks, so it still creates churn. Just a bit less. If the cost to create them is bigger then the delta in churn, they are a net NEGATIVE for society. Third issue: - These glasses still exist and can be bought - just search for tempered drinking glass, go wild and buy them. As for your comment here: > Ideology is a mind killer -- if this weren't attached to the word communist you'd probably be agreeing, yeah, too bad people won't use the durable glasses and waste energy replacing less durable ones. Comment has nothing to do with ideology. I was making a point that Communism has a way to push forward ideas that aren't always great. In some places it did manage to make progress like the space race, but that was rare. Also... how many glasses do you regularly break/replace?, seems like a problem on your side since I can't remember when I last broke a glass.
rsj_hn 5y ago
I think it's true that many products created in Eastern Europe were of a more durable nature than the average product in the west. This goes from vacuum cleaners to glassware. But when people say things like "capitalism has no need for X", what they are bemoaning is that the bulk of the market is choosing different tradeoffs. You can still buy highly durable drinking glasses, it's just that the cost of producing these glasses isn't worth the additional durability for most people - so they are a niche product. You wont find them in the average restaurant, for example. There is no need to make this about capitalism versus communism, it's about market-based solutions versus solutions by a party dictatorship. Anti-smoking campaigns and autobahns are fantastic, but we don't (I hope) ascribe good roads and public health to fascism. The point being, when you have a party dictatorship that controls the economy and can direct it by political aims, you can snap your fingers and say "I want unbreakable shot glasses", and you will get it done. That's the advantage of totalitarian control, and there are many, many people who are led by their inner totalitarian. These are the ones genuinely upset that their neighbors are making different trade-offs. For them, it's not that they can't buy durable glasses, but that someone, somewhere, is allowed to buy cheap glasses. That is what bothers them. These are the people who must never again be given power in society. I hope that we all understand that when comparing totalitarian systems rather than market-driven systems, the yardstick of comparison should be the overall effects on efficiency and freedom, not whether people are free to make their own choices for glassware, or even free to make bad choices.
- HMH 5y ago
  > But when people say things like "capitalism has no need for X", what they are bemoaning is that the bulk of the market is choosing different tradeoffs. What I am bemoaning is planned obsolescence, under capitalism there is hardly any incentive to make things more durable unless absolutely necessary. Superfest glasses may or may not be an example of planned obsolescence winning over durability as I do not know the costs to produce them and it seems there are some downsides like breaking rather violently once their time has finally come.
  - gruez 5y ago
    >What I am bemoaning is planned obsolescence, under capitalism there is hardly any incentive to make things more durable unless absolutely necessary. Counterexample: gorilla glass on phones. Surely using it isn't "absolutely necessary" either? Also, you can apply the same logic to planned economies. What are you going to do, buy it from the competitor?
zxcvbn4038 5y ago
If Google made glassware it would arrive already broken to save you the effort of breaking it, and there would be a community forum where your peers could help you fill the glasses.

by HMH 5y ago

BostonEnginerd 5y ago

The Superfest glass process is very similar to what is used to produce Gorilla glass. The glass is heated up and submerged in or sprayed with a potassium solution. The hot glass matrix opens up enough for potassium ions to diffuse into it. When the glass cools, the potassium ions are trapped creating a lot of internal stress. This internal stress helps the glass to resist being scratched or broken —- until it fails catastrophically. :-)

christkv 5y ago
Yeah I remember having one of those glasses and it literally blew up lol.
GravitasFailure 5y ago
The strength that those stresses add is mind boggling. Smarter Every Day[0] did a video on Prince Rupert's Drops, which have similar internal stresses, and he demonstrates their strength by shooting a drop with a .22 rifle. [0]https://youtu.be/xe-f4gokRBs https://youtu.be/xe-f4gokRBs

adriancr 5y ago

This looks like lack of product-market fit, very common with a lot of communist products. From reading article it does break, but not that easy... If they're too expensive and breaking is not really an issue/not fully solved then it's not a good fit for bars or homes. It would need to find a market that needs such properties and doesn't already have better products. I'm struggling to think of one.

callmeal 5y ago
> This looks like lack of product-market fit, very common with a lot of communist products. IOW, communist products were not planned for forced obsolescense?
- adriancr 5y ago
  > IOW, communist products were not planned for forced obsolescense? Can you detail how forced obsolescence applies? I detailed in comment above how this communist glass wasn't better at least for bars/pubs/homes. - These glasses also broke, just a bit harder. - Breaking isn't a big issue (it's not common at least in bars/pubs or homes). I can count on one hand the glasses I've broken in my life. - it was more expensive to produce As for other markets, there are better products (secured glass for cars/home windows, gorilla glass for phones, etc) This is just the sort of idea that worked well during communist party meetings and got implemented... too bad it was a waste of money, but hey, can't argue with the party.
  - refenestrator 5y ago
    Market failures are real, and society is poorer if we churn through more stuff that breaks instead of less stuff that holds up. Ideology is a mind killer -- if this weren't attached to the word communist you'd probably be agreeing, yeah, too bad people won't use the durable glasses and waste energy replacing less durable ones.
    - adriancr 5y ago
      > society is poorer if we churn through more stuff that breaks instead of less stuff that holds up. What I'm saying is that there's a reason why these failed. I see you are very attached to these glasses and their benefits and capitalism failed them. So, let's dig into them a bit more: First issue: - These glasses are equivalent to tempered glass. (similar to gorilla glass) - tempered glass shatters explosively when a more durable material touches it. Would you keep glasses like this at home?, I wouldn't. Second issue: - It STILL breaks, so it still creates churn. Just a bit less. If the cost to create them is bigger then the delta in churn, they are a net NEGATIVE for society. Third issue: - These glasses still exist and can be bought - just search for tempered drinking glass, go wild and buy them. As for your comment here: > Ideology is a mind killer -- if this weren't attached to the word communist you'd probably be agreeing, yeah, too bad people won't use the durable glasses and waste energy replacing less durable ones. Comment has nothing to do with ideology. I was making a point that Communism has a way to push forward ideas that aren't always great. In some places it did manage to make progress like the space race, but that was rare. Also... how many glasses do you regularly break/replace?, seems like a problem on your side since I can't remember when I last broke a glass.

rsj_hn 5y ago

I think it's true that many products created in Eastern Europe were of a more durable nature than the average product in the west. This goes from vacuum cleaners to glassware. But when people say things like "capitalism has no need for X", what they are bemoaning is that the bulk of the market is choosing different tradeoffs. You can still buy highly durable drinking glasses, it's just that the cost of producing these glasses isn't worth the additional durability for most people - so they are a niche product. You wont find them in the average restaurant, for example. There is no need to make this about capitalism versus communism, it's about market-based solutions versus solutions by a party dictatorship. Anti-smoking campaigns and autobahns are fantastic, but we don't (I hope) ascribe good roads and public health to fascism. The point being, when you have a party dictatorship that controls the economy and can direct it by political aims, you can snap your fingers and say "I want unbreakable shot glasses", and you will get it done. That's the advantage of totalitarian control, and there are many, many people who are led by their inner totalitarian. These are the ones genuinely upset that their neighbors are making different trade-offs. For them, it's not that they can't buy durable glasses, but that someone, somewhere, is allowed to buy cheap glasses. That is what bothers them. These are the people who must never again be given power in society. I hope that we all understand that when comparing totalitarian systems rather than market-driven systems, the yardstick of comparison should be the overall effects on efficiency and freedom, not whether people are free to make their own choices for glassware, or even free to make bad choices.

HMH 5y ago
> But when people say things like "capitalism has no need for X", what they are bemoaning is that the bulk of the market is choosing different tradeoffs. What I am bemoaning is planned obsolescence, under capitalism there is hardly any incentive to make things more durable unless absolutely necessary. Superfest glasses may or may not be an example of planned obsolescence winning over durability as I do not know the costs to produce them and it seems there are some downsides like breaking rather violently once their time has finally come.
- gruez 5y ago
  >What I am bemoaning is planned obsolescence, under capitalism there is hardly any incentive to make things more durable unless absolutely necessary. Counterexample: gorilla glass on phones. Surely using it isn't "absolutely necessary" either? Also, you can apply the same logic to planned economies. What are you going to do, buy it from the competitor?

zxcvbn4038 5y ago

If Google made glassware it would arrive already broken to save you the effort of breaking it, and there would be a community forum where your peers could help you fill the glasses.