4 ms·

> Maybe we can develop healthier forms of social media. Sounds like "let's develop a healthier form of crack" to me.

by NumberCruncher 5y ago

cpach 5y ago
Coffee :D
- mewpmewp2 5y ago
  Yes, but imagine crack/amphetamines/stimulants without negative health effects. With no addiction, tolerance, or making people stop doing basic habits like eating, drinking water, brushing teeth etc. A healthy form of crack that would only have benefits of the crack that could make you into a real motivated, energised work horse or entrepreneur. You could be on it, you could be off it with no consequences, but if you want to be extra productive you would be on it. I think OP's really onto something here. Maybe something to reset the brain chemical state in such way that tolerance and addiction could not come up. It surely must be possible in some way.
  - samhw 5y ago
    A friend of mine had this idea but with opioids. He invented an opioid painkiller which was, IIRC, a positive allosteric modulator of the mu opioid receptor - I'm not an expert, but I believe the gist was that it enhanced your endogenous opioid system, and was therefore less prone to addiction. He ended up finding a handful of papers scattered across the last decades where people had come to the same realisation, but nothing came of it. Now, it's very possible there was something wrong with the idea. He did synthesise the molecule and we both took it, but not for long enough to really assess - even in a Shulgin-like way - whether it was addictive. But he ended up suspecting that the reason nothing came of it is that a non-addictive drug is simply not profitable, and is dominated, in the game-theory sense, by addictive drugs which bring consistent and greater revenue streams. Also, apropos of: > reset the brain chemical state in such way that tolerance and addiction could not come up You may want to look into ibogaine. It doesn't give you both the high and the 'resetting the brain' functions - it only does the latter - but it's a very interesting case in that it has a very successful track record in resetting addiction. Though research is hampered by the fact that its cardiotoxic properties have killed a bunch of people who didn't do proper ECGs etc to check for heart abnormalities before taking it.
mewpmewp2 5y ago
Would it be bad to have a healthy form of crack? By healthy I would mean physically non addictive and without any negative long term effects. If you used it right it would just give you euphoria, motivation, stimulation and potentially nootropic effects?
- elcritch 5y ago
  For many ADHD sufferers there’s literally a healthier form of crack. Well actually meth. It produces most of what of what you mention, except the sense of euphoria. The euphoria comes from quick rushes of dopamine and are what lead to many of the worse outcomes of meth/crack like dropping hygiene or eating properly. Conversely meds generally help ADHDers with basic hygiene, motivation, etc.
- thr0wawayf00 5y ago
  > By healthy I would mean physically non addictive and without any negative long term effects. But how would something like work? It's the substance's ability to cause euphoria that makes it addictive. You cannot have one without the other. Addiction occurs when one loses the ability to regulate their dopamine-driven activity, causing something akin to an infinite loop. Adderall is basically legal meth, and it's easily the most abused medication in the US.
  - mewpmewp2 5y ago
    It should somehow be able to reset or configure brain's chemical state. There's 2 addictions, physical and psychological. Psychological, could yes still happen of course even if you restored the balance of dopamine and other relevant chemicals, but in theory you could at least get rid of withdrawals if you were able to manipulate those chemicals. We don't have a way to do that, and may be we won't have, and maybe we'll invent something completely different first that would make something like this or drugs completely obsolete. But just in theory.
    - thr0wawayf00 5y ago
      What you're describing sounds vaguely like some naturally occurring psychedelics, but again, those typically aren't addictive because the body often tries to reject them, even when you achieve an altered state of mind. They're not pleasurable to take. I highly recommend reading the Molecule of More, which does an incredible job of explaining the brain chemistry behind addiction in an accessible way.
polytely 5y ago
I've switched completely over to a well-moderated mastodon instance and haven't looked back since. Finding an instance that aligns with your values is the tricky part but once you have done that it's a lot of fun. The absence of any advertisements or algorithms really has an impact on the quality.

> Maybe we can develop healthier forms of social media. Sounds like "let's develop a healthier form of crack" to me.

cpach 5y ago

Coffee :D

mewpmewp2 5y ago
Yes, but imagine crack/amphetamines/stimulants without negative health effects. With no addiction, tolerance, or making people stop doing basic habits like eating, drinking water, brushing teeth etc. A healthy form of crack that would only have benefits of the crack that could make you into a real motivated, energised work horse or entrepreneur. You could be on it, you could be off it with no consequences, but if you want to be extra productive you would be on it. I think OP's really onto something here. Maybe something to reset the brain chemical state in such way that tolerance and addiction could not come up. It surely must be possible in some way.
- samhw 5y ago
  A friend of mine had this idea but with opioids. He invented an opioid painkiller which was, IIRC, a positive allosteric modulator of the mu opioid receptor - I'm not an expert, but I believe the gist was that it enhanced your endogenous opioid system, and was therefore less prone to addiction. He ended up finding a handful of papers scattered across the last decades where people had come to the same realisation, but nothing came of it. Now, it's very possible there was something wrong with the idea. He did synthesise the molecule and we both took it, but not for long enough to really assess - even in a Shulgin-like way - whether it was addictive. But he ended up suspecting that the reason nothing came of it is that a non-addictive drug is simply not profitable, and is dominated, in the game-theory sense, by addictive drugs which bring consistent and greater revenue streams. Also, apropos of: > reset the brain chemical state in such way that tolerance and addiction could not come up You may want to look into ibogaine. It doesn't give you both the high and the 'resetting the brain' functions - it only does the latter - but it's a very interesting case in that it has a very successful track record in resetting addiction. Though research is hampered by the fact that its cardiotoxic properties have killed a bunch of people who didn't do proper ECGs etc to check for heart abnormalities before taking it.

mewpmewp2 5y ago

Would it be bad to have a healthy form of crack? By healthy I would mean physically non addictive and without any negative long term effects. If you used it right it would just give you euphoria, motivation, stimulation and potentially nootropic effects?

elcritch 5y ago
For many ADHD sufferers there’s literally a healthier form of crack. Well actually meth. It produces most of what of what you mention, except the sense of euphoria. The euphoria comes from quick rushes of dopamine and are what lead to many of the worse outcomes of meth/crack like dropping hygiene or eating properly. Conversely meds generally help ADHDers with basic hygiene, motivation, etc.
thr0wawayf00 5y ago
> By healthy I would mean physically non addictive and without any negative long term effects. But how would something like work? It's the substance's ability to cause euphoria that makes it addictive. You cannot have one without the other. Addiction occurs when one loses the ability to regulate their dopamine-driven activity, causing something akin to an infinite loop. Adderall is basically legal meth, and it's easily the most abused medication in the US.
- mewpmewp2 5y ago
  It should somehow be able to reset or configure brain's chemical state. There's 2 addictions, physical and psychological. Psychological, could yes still happen of course even if you restored the balance of dopamine and other relevant chemicals, but in theory you could at least get rid of withdrawals if you were able to manipulate those chemicals. We don't have a way to do that, and may be we won't have, and maybe we'll invent something completely different first that would make something like this or drugs completely obsolete. But just in theory.
  - thr0wawayf00 5y ago
    What you're describing sounds vaguely like some naturally occurring psychedelics, but again, those typically aren't addictive because the body often tries to reject them, even when you achieve an altered state of mind. They're not pleasurable to take. I highly recommend reading the Molecule of More, which does an incredible job of explaining the brain chemistry behind addiction in an accessible way.

polytely 5y ago

I've switched completely over to a well-moderated mastodon instance and haven't looked back since. Finding an instance that aligns with your values is the tricky part but once you have done that it's a lot of fun. The absence of any advertisements or algorithms really has an impact on the quality.