5 ms·

The real problem here is that Intuit and other companies lobby millions to maintain their status quo. The right thing to do would be to put every single dollar

by 3gg 5y ago

The real problem here is that Intuit and other companies lobby millions to maintain their status quo. The right thing to do would be to put every single dollar spent on these corporations into a government program that develops this kind of software or even does the taxes for you (this already exists in many countries in the EU.) Instead, in the US, you pay for Turbotax, they make a profit out if it, and then they use part of the money to lobby and keep the tax code and system rigged for their own benefit. I don't know if open source software is the solution here -- and as far as I know, the tax forms change every year, so it will be forever playing catch-up -- but it seems to be missing the point entirely.

icelancer 5y ago
>> even does the taxes for you This should exist. 80% of US citizens can just have this done right now. >> government program that develops this kind of software This should not for the remaining 20%.
- 3gg 5y ago
  Right. For most people that are on a payroll and maybe have a 401k and what not, tax preparation should be easily automated. In some EU countries, the government will send you a draft that you basically just have to sign and send back. For the remaining 20% (likely even less than 10%) of people with more exotic investments, it is probably safe to assume that they either have the knowledge to handle the edge cases themselves or the wealth to pay someone to do it for them. It should also be noted that the IRS already has all of the information about you anyway. Your bank, your brokers, etc all send copies of your financials to them. At that point, filling in a tax return by hand is basically a potential form of punishment for not doing your homework right.
  - desas 5y ago
    In the UK 80% of the population don't even have to sign anything and send it back. The rest have some employment income information on a website and have to supply the rest of the data, I found it pretty straight forward when I did it for the first time.
j_m_b 5y ago
The US government is always honest and most assuredly will make their software with the end user in mind. Combined with the excellent customer support offered by the IRS and the US government's proven track record in creating stable software used by millions, this would be the best solution.
- 3gg 5y ago
  I can only assume you're being sarcastic, but this kind of attitude only benefits these corporations. It is a common tactic by the rich oligarchies to defund and delegitimize government institutions so that they are scorned by the population and eventually privatized -- a move that only benefits them in the end. I would suggest Noam Chomsky's "Requiem for the American Dream: The 10 Principles of Concentration of Wealth & Power."
- fnord123 5y ago
  Sarcasm aside, the IRS customer support is excellent.
  - pkaye 5y ago
    10 years ago I had some special tax situation that the two tax preparers I consulted were not familiar with. They took the safe route in preparing the paperwork. So I called up the IRS support line and a specialist talked with me in detail about my situation and told me the proper way to do it and it saved me $5k in taxes.
  - qzw 5y ago
    Absolutely, but wait times have been increasing due to budget cuts. There’s an unhealthy fear/contempt of the IRS in the US. It’s one of the most important government agencies, and it should be treated as such and given the resources to serve the people better, instead of serving as a perpetual political punching bag.
  - spaetzleesser 5y ago
    I can confirm that. I once had a problem with business tax, called them and I was surprised how well they treated me and gave advice.
umeshunni 5y ago
I see this comment on every single article about taxation on reddit and HN, but can you be a bit more specific and identify what this lobbying does and actually point at some examples?
- junar 5y ago
  The story of ReadyReturn in California is a pretty clear example. https://www.npr.org/transcripts/521132960 https://www.npr.org/transcripts/521132960
  - umeshunni 5y ago
    Aha, here's the actual interesting bit: The intensity of industry opposition to CalFile has not gone unnoticed in Washington, D.C. In February, IRS commissioner Mark Everson told Congress that he was reluctant to set up an IRS direct e-file system in part because of the bruising battle he witnessed in California...And that leaves federal taxpayers with little prospect of a direct-to-government e-filing system anytime soon...In fact, the industry already ran Big Brother-themed ads in California when tax authorities there were setting up CalFile, a direct e-filing system for state taxes. Lenny Goldberg, the head of the California Tax Reform Association, says Intuit is leading the charge against direct e-filing. But looking at https://www.ftb.ca.gov/file/ways-to-file/online/calfile/index.asp https://www.ftb.ca.gov/file/ways-to-file/online/calfile/inde... , it looks like I can file my taxes for 2020 via CalFile, so what is this about then? ReadyReturn? Well, according to https://priceonomics.com/the-stanford-professor-who-fought-the-tax-lobby/ https://priceonomics.com/the-stanford-professor-who-fought-t... There is one program in America, however, that provides some taxpayers with completed tax returns. Since 2007, around 80,000 California taxpayers each year have paid state income taxes this way under a program called ReadyReturn. ReadyReturn survived corporate lobbying for one reason: Joe Bankman decided to make easy tax filing his personal mission, and he spent $30,000 to hire a lobbyist to counter lobbying by Intuit, the maker of TurboTax software. but here's something more interesting: Since 2015, the tax preparation industry has persuaded lawmakers to include a line in the annual appropriations bill that bars the IRS from offering pre-populated returns to taxpayers. The Financial Services and General Government Appropriations Bill approved by the Senate last month extends that ban another year. The codification of Free File in the Taxpayer First Act and the extended ban on pre-populated returns in the appropriations bill are steps in precisely the wrong direction.

by 3gg 5y ago

icelancer 5y ago

>> even does the taxes for you This should exist. 80% of US citizens can just have this done right now. >> government program that develops this kind of software This should not for the remaining 20%.

3gg 5y ago
Right. For most people that are on a payroll and maybe have a 401k and what not, tax preparation should be easily automated. In some EU countries, the government will send you a draft that you basically just have to sign and send back. For the remaining 20% (likely even less than 10%) of people with more exotic investments, it is probably safe to assume that they either have the knowledge to handle the edge cases themselves or the wealth to pay someone to do it for them. It should also be noted that the IRS already has all of the information about you anyway. Your bank, your brokers, etc all send copies of your financials to them. At that point, filling in a tax return by hand is basically a potential form of punishment for not doing your homework right.
- desas 5y ago
  In the UK 80% of the population don't even have to sign anything and send it back. The rest have some employment income information on a website and have to supply the rest of the data, I found it pretty straight forward when I did it for the first time.

j_m_b 5y ago

The US government is always honest and most assuredly will make their software with the end user in mind. Combined with the excellent customer support offered by the IRS and the US government's proven track record in creating stable software used by millions, this would be the best solution.

3gg 5y ago
I can only assume you're being sarcastic, but this kind of attitude only benefits these corporations. It is a common tactic by the rich oligarchies to defund and delegitimize government institutions so that they are scorned by the population and eventually privatized -- a move that only benefits them in the end. I would suggest Noam Chomsky's "Requiem for the American Dream: The 10 Principles of Concentration of Wealth & Power."
fnord123 5y ago
Sarcasm aside, the IRS customer support is excellent.
- pkaye 5y ago
  10 years ago I had some special tax situation that the two tax preparers I consulted were not familiar with. They took the safe route in preparing the paperwork. So I called up the IRS support line and a specialist talked with me in detail about my situation and told me the proper way to do it and it saved me $5k in taxes.
- qzw 5y ago
  Absolutely, but wait times have been increasing due to budget cuts. There’s an unhealthy fear/contempt of the IRS in the US. It’s one of the most important government agencies, and it should be treated as such and given the resources to serve the people better, instead of serving as a perpetual political punching bag.
- spaetzleesser 5y ago
  I can confirm that. I once had a problem with business tax, called them and I was surprised how well they treated me and gave advice.

umeshunni 5y ago

I see this comment on every single article about taxation on reddit and HN, but can you be a bit more specific and identify what this lobbying does and actually point at some examples?

junar 5y ago
The story of ReadyReturn in California is a pretty clear example. https://www.npr.org/transcripts/521132960 https://www.npr.org/transcripts/521132960
- umeshunni 5y ago
  Aha, here's the actual interesting bit: The intensity of industry opposition to CalFile has not gone unnoticed in Washington, D.C. In February, IRS commissioner Mark Everson told Congress that he was reluctant to set up an IRS direct e-file system in part because of the bruising battle he witnessed in California...And that leaves federal taxpayers with little prospect of a direct-to-government e-filing system anytime soon...In fact, the industry already ran Big Brother-themed ads in California when tax authorities there were setting up CalFile, a direct e-filing system for state taxes. Lenny Goldberg, the head of the California Tax Reform Association, says Intuit is leading the charge against direct e-filing. But looking at https://www.ftb.ca.gov/file/ways-to-file/online/calfile/index.asp https://www.ftb.ca.gov/file/ways-to-file/online/calfile/inde... , it looks like I can file my taxes for 2020 via CalFile, so what is this about then? ReadyReturn? Well, according to https://priceonomics.com/the-stanford-professor-who-fought-the-tax-lobby/ https://priceonomics.com/the-stanford-professor-who-fought-t... There is one program in America, however, that provides some taxpayers with completed tax returns. Since 2007, around 80,000 California taxpayers each year have paid state income taxes this way under a program called ReadyReturn. ReadyReturn survived corporate lobbying for one reason: Joe Bankman decided to make easy tax filing his personal mission, and he spent $30,000 to hire a lobbyist to counter lobbying by Intuit, the maker of TurboTax software. but here's something more interesting: Since 2015, the tax preparation industry has persuaded lawmakers to include a line in the annual appropriations bill that bars the IRS from offering pre-populated returns to taxpayers. The Financial Services and General Government Appropriations Bill approved by the Senate last month extends that ban another year. The codification of Free File in the Taxpayer First Act and the extended ban on pre-populated returns in the appropriations bill are steps in precisely the wrong direction.