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As sad as it is to admit it, it is not surprising to me. Worse, given the nature of my job, it is almost a given that some of my searches and queries are a part

As sad as it is to admit it, it is not surprising to me. Worse, given the nature of my job, it is almost a given that some of my searches and queries are a part of an undesirable list somewhere. It is a problem. I am not trying to diminish it. But the real problem is that general population has zero to no issue with it. They barely comprehend the scope of what is happening. I am not sure it registers at all. Last time I talked to my wife about it, she said she has nothing to hide and I had to resist the urge to just plop her internet history open to make it a teachable moment. I had this conversation once before. It is not fun and I don't want a repeat.

sjg007 5y ago
I think tht even today with the internet it takes a good detective to sort through all of the evidence. There are easy answers and there are the correct answers, in between truth. With AI it will only get more difficult. You have shot spotters, license plate reader and gps with no warranty.
lsiebert 5y ago
I suspect there may be some bias in your data gathering, because that's not what's reflected in the statistical surveys I've seen. "Americans are concerned about how much data is being collected about them, and many feel their information is less secure than it used to be. The majority of Americans say they are at least somewhat concerned about how much data is collected about them by both companies (79%) and the government (64%). Additionally, seven-in-ten Americans say they feel their personal information is less secure than it was five years ago. This compares with just 6% who say they feel their information is more secure, and about one-quarter (24%) who feel it’s about the same." https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/11/15/key-takeaways-on-americans-views-about-privacy-surveillance-and-data-sharing/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/11/15/key-takeawa...
- A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
  It is possible. My social circle is relatively small and may not be representative of the zeitgeist. But despite the data shown, the question is what an average American is doing. While there is interest in non-google, non-apple devices, those are still niche markets with some technical knowhow necessary. Apart from that, both Apple and Google are doing rather well. I certainly did not see a decrease in sales of various panopticon enabling devices. Far from it. Amazon joined the fray and along with other players convinced people to install wiretaps in their own homes. There is an actual joke about it so I am not sure if it is a question of social proof or cognitive dissonance. I agree there is an improvement, but I am not as optimistic it since I don't see it affecting profits.
WriterGuy2021 5y ago
The general population is highly domesticated. The defining aspect of domestication is the surrender of one's capacity to do violence in exchange for peaceful symbiosis. The domesticated are accustomed to filling rigid roles in society -- a society they believe to be benevolent and infinitely stable. Those of us that are not so domesticated, we wild ones, we who intimately comprehend history because we understand the nature of violence and power, are dying with anxiety as centralized powers gain more and more power over us every year. Your wife has no understanding of violence and power, i.e., she is domesticated. That's why she has "nothing to hide." The funny thing is, people have been aware of this property of human nature for thousands of years, but every generation that lives through hard times is shocked when they are forced to rediscover these principles -- as you seem to be discovering. If you continue to investigate why your wife thinks as she does, you'll come to the points I've made above and the behavior of the compliant masses will make much more sense -- and will leave you with quite a terrible feeling if you truly come to understand how most people will pretty much blindly comply with any prevailing authority that has seized the capacity to commit violence.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
  I think I disagree in several different ways. I am personally highly domesticated. I accept that without society there are a lot of things I would not be able to do ( engaging with random strangers on HN come to mind -- in a lot of ways, it is pleasure and a privilege to have time to engage in an intellectual discussion ). But I disagree with your definition that the defining aspect of domestication is surrendering one's capacity to do violence. You may be applying the meaning of the word as that referring to a farm animal, but, if you permit the pun, we are not on animal farm. We live in an odd 1984 dystopia, where we hashtag about room 101, but we are not on animal farm yet. In that sense, we are not domesticated. You could argue, a lot of us have been lulled by the comforts of the lazy life, but meaning is somewhat different from the one proposed by you. To your point about violence, I want to note that no one really surrenders it. If US news are any indication, it is, at best, temporarily suspended.
  - hoseja 5y ago
    The pesky big-brained system substrate is much more efficient when it thinks it's free. No individual human has any actual agency.
Gentil 5y ago
Sir, I would ask your wife if it is OK to share all the usernames and passwords of all websites she has signed up to a stranger. And if she says NO, ask her if she wont share what she know are in her field of view, how can she be sure about the things/data she don't know about knowing big corps put money over your interest at first? Also - https://www.privacytools.io/ https://www.privacytools.io/
- Uke 5y ago
  hm, i think that page needs to be updated. They suggest protonmail for email and it has been shown, that they will do ip-logs etc.
  - rapjr9 5y ago
    All the email services they recommend are outside the USA also which means for USA residents it is guaranteed the NSA will be keeping a copy in case they can decrypt it later and will have copies of all your unencrypted emails.
- MerelyMortal 5y ago
  The Jewish people of Germany had nothing to hide, until the government passed some new laws.
6gvONxR4sf7o 5y ago
> But the real problem is that general population has zero to no issue with it. It’s really tough to make this case. You can ask someone whether they’re worried about tracking and likely get a “no,” but if you put a “allow app to track” button they’ll also click “no,” and if you ask how they feel about a concrete specific data collection, they’ll often say they don’t like it.

sjg007 5y ago

I think tht even today with the internet it takes a good detective to sort through all of the evidence. There are easy answers and there are the correct answers, in between truth. With AI it will only get more difficult. You have shot spotters, license plate reader and gps with no warranty.

lsiebert 5y ago

I suspect there may be some bias in your data gathering, because that's not what's reflected in the statistical surveys I've seen. "Americans are concerned about how much data is being collected about them, and many feel their information is less secure than it used to be. The majority of Americans say they are at least somewhat concerned about how much data is collected about them by both companies (79%) and the government (64%). Additionally, seven-in-ten Americans say they feel their personal information is less secure than it was five years ago. This compares with just 6% who say they feel their information is more secure, and about one-quarter (24%) who feel it’s about the same." https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/11/15/key-takeaways-on-americans-views-about-privacy-surveillance-and-data-sharing/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/11/15/key-takeawa...

A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
It is possible. My social circle is relatively small and may not be representative of the zeitgeist. But despite the data shown, the question is what an average American is doing. While there is interest in non-google, non-apple devices, those are still niche markets with some technical knowhow necessary. Apart from that, both Apple and Google are doing rather well. I certainly did not see a decrease in sales of various panopticon enabling devices. Far from it. Amazon joined the fray and along with other players convinced people to install wiretaps in their own homes. There is an actual joke about it so I am not sure if it is a question of social proof or cognitive dissonance. I agree there is an improvement, but I am not as optimistic it since I don't see it affecting profits.

WriterGuy2021 5y ago

The general population is highly domesticated. The defining aspect of domestication is the surrender of one's capacity to do violence in exchange for peaceful symbiosis. The domesticated are accustomed to filling rigid roles in society -- a society they believe to be benevolent and infinitely stable. Those of us that are not so domesticated, we wild ones, we who intimately comprehend history because we understand the nature of violence and power, are dying with anxiety as centralized powers gain more and more power over us every year. Your wife has no understanding of violence and power, i.e., she is domesticated. That's why she has "nothing to hide." The funny thing is, people have been aware of this property of human nature for thousands of years, but every generation that lives through hard times is shocked when they are forced to rediscover these principles -- as you seem to be discovering. If you continue to investigate why your wife thinks as she does, you'll come to the points I've made above and the behavior of the compliant masses will make much more sense -- and will leave you with quite a terrible feeling if you truly come to understand how most people will pretty much blindly comply with any prevailing authority that has seized the capacity to commit violence.

A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
I think I disagree in several different ways. I am personally highly domesticated. I accept that without society there are a lot of things I would not be able to do ( engaging with random strangers on HN come to mind -- in a lot of ways, it is pleasure and a privilege to have time to engage in an intellectual discussion ). But I disagree with your definition that the defining aspect of domestication is surrendering one's capacity to do violence. You may be applying the meaning of the word as that referring to a farm animal, but, if you permit the pun, we are not on animal farm. We live in an odd 1984 dystopia, where we hashtag about room 101, but we are not on animal farm yet. In that sense, we are not domesticated. You could argue, a lot of us have been lulled by the comforts of the lazy life, but meaning is somewhat different from the one proposed by you. To your point about violence, I want to note that no one really surrenders it. If US news are any indication, it is, at best, temporarily suspended.
- hoseja 5y ago
  The pesky big-brained system substrate is much more efficient when it thinks it's free. No individual human has any actual agency.

Gentil 5y ago

Sir, I would ask your wife if it is OK to share all the usernames and passwords of all websites she has signed up to a stranger. And if she says NO, ask her if she wont share what she know are in her field of view, how can she be sure about the things/data she don't know about knowing big corps put money over your interest at first? Also - https://www.privacytools.io/ https://www.privacytools.io/

Uke 5y ago
hm, i think that page needs to be updated. They suggest protonmail for email and it has been shown, that they will do ip-logs etc.
- rapjr9 5y ago
  All the email services they recommend are outside the USA also which means for USA residents it is guaranteed the NSA will be keeping a copy in case they can decrypt it later and will have copies of all your unencrypted emails.
MerelyMortal 5y ago
The Jewish people of Germany had nothing to hide, until the government passed some new laws.

6gvONxR4sf7o 5y ago

> But the real problem is that general population has zero to no issue with it. It’s really tough to make this case. You can ask someone whether they’re worried about tracking and likely get a “no,” but if you put a “allow app to track” button they’ll also click “no,” and if you ask how they feel about a concrete specific data collection, they’ll often say they don’t like it.