4 ms·

What is "accessible"? I can call anywhere in the USA for free, and its $0.01/minute to call an overseas relative, yet I almost never call.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
Accessible would be the mobile networks allowing people to call overseas for $0.01 per minute. I would not dare try to call an international number via ATT/Verizon/T-Mobile outside of Canada/Mexico, because I would expect to pay at least $10 for the call if not more. I do not know where one would get $0.01 per minute international calls from the US, but it is most likely not as easy as an app on your smartphone.
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  T-Mobile used to have some kind of international roaming deal...
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  Honestly, is there a good reason this hasn't happened yet? If people use WhatsApp, the mobile networks get $0, so they ought to be offering at least somewhat competitive prices...
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Why and how would the telephone networks compete with $0.00? As far as I understand, the whole telephone protocol is decades old and involves various networks paying each other based on who knows what per years old contracts at years old prices.
    - vxNsr 5y ago
      VOIP from tmo/vz/att is still 100x better quality than voip from WhatsApp or zoom, I’ll choose tmo calling if it’s cheap or free over WhatsApp every time.
  - NavinF 5y ago
    I assume it's more profitable to milk old customers that don't care about price rather than try to get new customers onto POTS. Realistically the only reason any of us would switch is lower latency calls to people that have shitty WiFi. That's an shrinking market.
  - baud147258 5y ago
    > If people use WhatsApp, the mobile networks get $0 Doesn't the network get at least the fee for the internet connection?
    - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
      Oh, I guess that’s true! But only if the user isn’t on wifi, and only if they don’t have an unlimited (or semi-unlimited) data plan.
      - baud147258 5y ago
        even then, with an unlimited (or semi-unlimited) data plan, the provider/ISP would have been paid at some point. Same with wi-fi, except that the user might not be the one paying for the connection between the wi-fi hotspot and internet, but the entity providing the connection to the WA servers would have received some money. In both cases, there's no direct relationship between messages sent/minutes of voice call and the money paid to the network provider, but the network provider still receives money in exchange of providing the connection.
        ClumsyPilot 5y ago
        I would not stop paying for internet access if calls were free and I didn't need what's app. I don't think anyone would
- zarzavat 5y ago
  Phone calls are essentially dead technology, kept alive by people who can't or won't install an app. Thus the price is whatever squeezes out the most revenue out of the residual users until the well runs dry. In some countries this process is happening faster than in others. Entire economies have been built on the principle that the price of a call or message is 0 and you only pay for data used (if any). That is the future that is coming, even for the US, but it might take a few more decades there.
  - vxNsr 5y ago
    But don’t you see what you’re saying? If the phone companies (TMobile, Verizon, etc) offered competitive pricing these apps/internet services wouldn’t exist! We would all happily pay Verizon the reasonable fees, instead they try to milk us and end up losing our business entirely.
    - baud147258 5y ago
      not necessarily, because WA offers options that normal calls and text don't, like group conversations/calls, easier documents and picture sharing and video calls. I mean I have rather affordable texts for my usual correspondents, but I'm mostly using WA to chat with them
      - baud147258 5y ago
        re-reading this, when I said "rather affordable texts", I should have said that I've got unlimited texts for contacts in the country, as part of my subscription (5€, got also 2 hours of call and 100 Mo per month)
      - vxNsr 5y ago
        What’s stopping the phone companies from offering that? The point is that they’ve chosen to not innovate.
    - herbst 5y ago
      I and my partner have several telephone packages that allow practically unlimited calling within Europe (which we regularly do) yet we mostly use Telegram and Signal because they are more comfortable. Edit:// in my phone I even have a internet only SIM, without number attached.
- pishpash 5y ago
  That's on top of paying for the internet itself. You must be young. If international calls are what you are looking for, calling cards and prepaid phones have been easy and cheap since a decade before these messaging apps. Then there was Skype and desktop messaging, and VOIP.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    I kept calling cards in my backpack to make my international calls before WhatsApp and mobile data came along. But they are certainly not easy compared to WhatsApp, nor “cheap” compared to free. Paying for the internet is not a consideration since people will be paying for the internet anyway.
- Johnny555 5y ago
  but it is most likely not as easy as an app on your smartphone You mean an app like Google Voice, or one of the many other SIP/VOIP apps out there? I use Localphone as my home SIP provider, and they have an app: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/localphone-international-calls/id1328874519 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/localphone-international-calls... There are tons of ways to make cheap calls from your phone -- when I used to travel internationally a lot, I set up my Android phone dialer with my SIP provider, then I could make and receive calls from the default phone dialer. But now I don't even bother, I just call home via a video call using Hangouts/Meet or Zoom and use my local SIM to make a local call.
jimmygrapes 5y ago
You ever tried calling anyone in Guam? It's part of the USA (albeit as a territory). Or the US Virgin Islands? US Samoa?
- Johnny555 5y ago
  I don't know many people overseas (other than my relatives), but Guam and the US VI are free from my cell, Samoa is 7 cents/minute. (unless I use my home VOIP provider, then it's 2c/minute if I buy a block of 500 minutes).

lotsofpulp 5y ago

Accessible would be the mobile networks allowing people to call overseas for $0.01 per minute. I would not dare try to call an international number via ATT/Verizon/T-Mobile outside of Canada/Mexico, because I would expect to pay at least $10 for the call if not more. I do not know where one would get $0.01 per minute international calls from the US, but it is most likely not as easy as an app on your smartphone.

selimthegrim 5y ago
T-Mobile used to have some kind of international roaming deal...
Wowfunhappy 5y ago
Honestly, is there a good reason this hasn't happened yet? If people use WhatsApp, the mobile networks get $0, so they ought to be offering at least somewhat competitive prices...
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  Why and how would the telephone networks compete with $0.00? As far as I understand, the whole telephone protocol is decades old and involves various networks paying each other based on who knows what per years old contracts at years old prices.
  - vxNsr 5y ago
    VOIP from tmo/vz/att is still 100x better quality than voip from WhatsApp or zoom, I’ll choose tmo calling if it’s cheap or free over WhatsApp every time.
- NavinF 5y ago
  I assume it's more profitable to milk old customers that don't care about price rather than try to get new customers onto POTS. Realistically the only reason any of us would switch is lower latency calls to people that have shitty WiFi. That's an shrinking market.
- baud147258 5y ago
  > If people use WhatsApp, the mobile networks get $0 Doesn't the network get at least the fee for the internet connection?
  - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
    Oh, I guess that’s true! But only if the user isn’t on wifi, and only if they don’t have an unlimited (or semi-unlimited) data plan.
    - baud147258 5y ago
      even then, with an unlimited (or semi-unlimited) data plan, the provider/ISP would have been paid at some point. Same with wi-fi, except that the user might not be the one paying for the connection between the wi-fi hotspot and internet, but the entity providing the connection to the WA servers would have received some money. In both cases, there's no direct relationship between messages sent/minutes of voice call and the money paid to the network provider, but the network provider still receives money in exchange of providing the connection.
      - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
        I would not stop paying for internet access if calls were free and I didn't need what's app. I don't think anyone would
zarzavat 5y ago
Phone calls are essentially dead technology, kept alive by people who can't or won't install an app. Thus the price is whatever squeezes out the most revenue out of the residual users until the well runs dry. In some countries this process is happening faster than in others. Entire economies have been built on the principle that the price of a call or message is 0 and you only pay for data used (if any). That is the future that is coming, even for the US, but it might take a few more decades there.
- vxNsr 5y ago
  But don’t you see what you’re saying? If the phone companies (TMobile, Verizon, etc) offered competitive pricing these apps/internet services wouldn’t exist! We would all happily pay Verizon the reasonable fees, instead they try to milk us and end up losing our business entirely.
  - baud147258 5y ago
    not necessarily, because WA offers options that normal calls and text don't, like group conversations/calls, easier documents and picture sharing and video calls. I mean I have rather affordable texts for my usual correspondents, but I'm mostly using WA to chat with them
    - baud147258 5y ago
      re-reading this, when I said "rather affordable texts", I should have said that I've got unlimited texts for contacts in the country, as part of my subscription (5€, got also 2 hours of call and 100 Mo per month)
    - vxNsr 5y ago
      What’s stopping the phone companies from offering that? The point is that they’ve chosen to not innovate.
  - herbst 5y ago
    I and my partner have several telephone packages that allow practically unlimited calling within Europe (which we regularly do) yet we mostly use Telegram and Signal because they are more comfortable. Edit:// in my phone I even have a internet only SIM, without number attached.
pishpash 5y ago
That's on top of paying for the internet itself. You must be young. If international calls are what you are looking for, calling cards and prepaid phones have been easy and cheap since a decade before these messaging apps. Then there was Skype and desktop messaging, and VOIP.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  I kept calling cards in my backpack to make my international calls before WhatsApp and mobile data came along. But they are certainly not easy compared to WhatsApp, nor “cheap” compared to free. Paying for the internet is not a consideration since people will be paying for the internet anyway.
Johnny555 5y ago
but it is most likely not as easy as an app on your smartphone You mean an app like Google Voice, or one of the many other SIP/VOIP apps out there? I use Localphone as my home SIP provider, and they have an app: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/localphone-international-calls/id1328874519 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/localphone-international-calls... There are tons of ways to make cheap calls from your phone -- when I used to travel internationally a lot, I set up my Android phone dialer with my SIP provider, then I could make and receive calls from the default phone dialer. But now I don't even bother, I just call home via a video call using Hangouts/Meet or Zoom and use my local SIM to make a local call.

jimmygrapes 5y ago

You ever tried calling anyone in Guam? It's part of the USA (albeit as a territory). Or the US Virgin Islands? US Samoa?

Johnny555 5y ago
I don't know many people overseas (other than my relatives), but Guam and the US VI are free from my cell, Samoa is 7 cents/minute. (unless I use my home VOIP provider, then it's 2c/minute if I buy a block of 500 minutes).