5 ms·

Ryzen is where it's at. Zero loss of general computing freedom, 12 hour battery time on laptops and faster than Intel. You lose so much right now with an M1 an

Ryzen is where it's at. Zero loss of general computing freedom, 12 hour battery time on laptops and faster than Intel. You lose so much right now with an M1 and later you'll lose even more. Honestly, you'd have to be a fan boy to get behind this.

GhettoComputers 5y ago
What do you lose? You get iOS apps, much better battery life, fanless, a Unix os with the ability to install Linux. What is the loss you refer to?
- techrat 5y ago
  Openess. Apple is the #1 most restrictive company in the world. "the ability to install Linux" with zero commits and support from Apple themselves, all reverse engineered. Meanwhile Intel and AMD both contribute to the Linux kernel. How much kool aid do you have to drink to think that 'ability' is actually something you can say is a feature with Apple devices? Come back when I can unlock the bootloader of an iDevice and we'll talk about the 'ability' to install Linux.
  - cromka 5y ago
    > Apple is the #1 most restrictive company in the world You really will not gain much credibility here on HN by throwing in some random, made-up ranking results. And I can guarantee that 99.99% didn't even read past that sentence /s
    - techrat 5y ago
      Way to blow me over with facts and citations. Apple: Prevents sideloading without a host MacOS computer. Sideloading is temporary. Blocks third party app stores. Blocks any and all browsers using a non-Safari engine. Not one iPad or iPhone has ever been bootloader unlockable. They've locked out iMessage people from being able to port their number out of the service for YEARS. Tell me what part of this screams openness. Even the most restrictive devices are less restrictive than Apple's. If the "ability to install Linux" is the benchmark here, guess what... that's nearly every single fucking device in the world. Except the majority of Apple devices, of course. Apple explicitly has gone out of their way to prevent this. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Apple-T2-Blocks-Linux-UEFI https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Apple-T2... https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2018/11/06/booting-linux-is-impossible-on-new-apple-hardware/?sh=6743afed7e1e https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2018/11/06/booti... https://www.zdnet.com/article/what-must-be-done-to-bring-linux-to-the-apple-m1-chip/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/what-must-be-done-to-bring-lin... Apple does ZERO to allow people to use an OS outside of their sandboxes. With the Intel based systems, Bootcamp is still restricted and limits hardware access necessary to run Windows properly on their systems. Yes. Apple is restrictive as fuck. As far as Technology companies go, yes, I'd put them up at the top. Your turn with sources and citations.
      - nemothekid 5y ago
        The reason your claim is hyperbolic, revolves around consumer tech around choices that most people don't care about. They locked people out of porting your number from iMessage? Scary - wait until you find out what happens when Google locks you out of your Google account. And #1 restrictive tech company? Did Oracle disappear while I slept?
        techrat 5y ago
        At least Oracle supports open source. Apple does not.
        fiddlerwoaroof 5y ago
        FoundationDB would like a word.
        techrat 5y ago
        That sure don't look like commits to open source projects managed by other people, bucko.
        5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
        That's pretty much the only product they support, no? I am no fan of Oracle (probably nobody is), but they do support some very heavy projects, the obvious ones being OpenJDK, MySQL, and the Linux kernel (mostly btrfs IIRC). https://lwn.net/Articles/867540/ https://lwn.net/Articles/867540/ Edit: I am not really talking about WebKit, Darwin, and the other projects they only developed for themselves.
        fiddlerwoaroof 5y ago
        They didn’t really “only develop WebKit for themselves”: all of the non-Firefox browsers now descend from WebKit one way or another. But, you can also look at their GitHub repositories: Swift, llvm, cups are at least three open source packages they maintain.
- wayneftw 5y ago
  Pffft. If you can't think of a single thing, I won't even bother arguing with you. Enjoy the dystopian future you're creating.
GhettoComputers 5y ago
What do you lose? You get iOS apps, much better battery life, a cool and fanless computer, a Unix os with the ability to install Linux. What is the loss you refer to?
scoopertrooper 5y ago
M1 is dramatically better than the top tier AMD mobile offering. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Merciless-Apple-M1-Mac-mini-takes-AMD-Ryzen-9-5900HX-Mini-PC-to-pieces-in-benchmark-obstacle-course.558398.0.html#7819312-5 https://www.notebookcheck.net/Merciless-Apple-M1-Mac-mini-ta...
- techrat 5y ago
  Nice dishonestly selected single benchmark screenshot. https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m1-vs-amd-ryzen-9-5900hx https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m1-vs-amd-ryzen-... The Ryzen 5900HX is more than 70% faster than the M1 in Cinebench Multicore... and 1% slower in single core. You know. Real world shit. Also. Max 16GB Ram for the M1. L Oh fuckin' L. Even my Celeron laptop could do more than that.
  - wtallis 5y ago
    You're responding to a power efficiency result by citing a pair of raw performance results. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, especially when discussing mobile hardware. Differences in power efficiency usually matter a lot more to mobile hardware than differences in raw performance.
    - techrat 5y ago
      The one you're defending... linked a benchmark of the Mac Mini. Not an M1 based Macbook. Try again.
      - wtallis 5y ago
        Using the Mac Mini form factor and a comparable Ryzen mini PC to judge the processors' suitability as mobile chips is certainly less than ideal, but it's not as worthless as you seem to be implying. In particular, this kind of comparison makes it far easier to get a more apples-to-apples comparison of the chips themselves, without other system design decisions as serious confounding variables. You won't find AMD's top mobile chip in any form factor that remotely resembles a MacBook Air, for example. And when trying to compare a MacBook Air against a Ryzen notebook that's 3-4x as thick, you wouldn't be able to make as strong a conclusion that it's the chip itself and not merely the heatsink responsible when the Ryzen does deliver higher performance.

GhettoComputers 5y ago

What do you lose? You get iOS apps, much better battery life, fanless, a Unix os with the ability to install Linux. What is the loss you refer to?

techrat 5y ago
Openess. Apple is the #1 most restrictive company in the world. "the ability to install Linux" with zero commits and support from Apple themselves, all reverse engineered. Meanwhile Intel and AMD both contribute to the Linux kernel. How much kool aid do you have to drink to think that 'ability' is actually something you can say is a feature with Apple devices? Come back when I can unlock the bootloader of an iDevice and we'll talk about the 'ability' to install Linux.
- cromka 5y ago
  > Apple is the #1 most restrictive company in the world You really will not gain much credibility here on HN by throwing in some random, made-up ranking results. And I can guarantee that 99.99% didn't even read past that sentence /s
  - techrat 5y ago
    Way to blow me over with facts and citations. Apple: Prevents sideloading without a host MacOS computer. Sideloading is temporary. Blocks third party app stores. Blocks any and all browsers using a non-Safari engine. Not one iPad or iPhone has ever been bootloader unlockable. They've locked out iMessage people from being able to port their number out of the service for YEARS. Tell me what part of this screams openness. Even the most restrictive devices are less restrictive than Apple's. If the "ability to install Linux" is the benchmark here, guess what... that's nearly every single fucking device in the world. Except the majority of Apple devices, of course. Apple explicitly has gone out of their way to prevent this. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Apple-T2-Blocks-Linux-UEFI https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Apple-T2... https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2018/11/06/booting-linux-is-impossible-on-new-apple-hardware/?sh=6743afed7e1e https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2018/11/06/booti... https://www.zdnet.com/article/what-must-be-done-to-bring-linux-to-the-apple-m1-chip/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/what-must-be-done-to-bring-lin... Apple does ZERO to allow people to use an OS outside of their sandboxes. With the Intel based systems, Bootcamp is still restricted and limits hardware access necessary to run Windows properly on their systems. Yes. Apple is restrictive as fuck. As far as Technology companies go, yes, I'd put them up at the top. Your turn with sources and citations.
    - nemothekid 5y ago
      The reason your claim is hyperbolic, revolves around consumer tech around choices that most people don't care about. They locked people out of porting your number from iMessage? Scary - wait until you find out what happens when Google locks you out of your Google account. And #1 restrictive tech company? Did Oracle disappear while I slept?
      - techrat 5y ago
        At least Oracle supports open source. Apple does not.
        fiddlerwoaroof 5y ago
        FoundationDB would like a word.
        techrat 5y ago
        That sure don't look like commits to open source projects managed by other people, bucko.
        5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
        That's pretty much the only product they support, no? I am no fan of Oracle (probably nobody is), but they do support some very heavy projects, the obvious ones being OpenJDK, MySQL, and the Linux kernel (mostly btrfs IIRC). https://lwn.net/Articles/867540/ https://lwn.net/Articles/867540/ Edit: I am not really talking about WebKit, Darwin, and the other projects they only developed for themselves.
        fiddlerwoaroof 5y ago
        They didn’t really “only develop WebKit for themselves”: all of the non-Firefox browsers now descend from WebKit one way or another. But, you can also look at their GitHub repositories: Swift, llvm, cups are at least three open source packages they maintain.
wayneftw 5y ago
Pffft. If you can't think of a single thing, I won't even bother arguing with you. Enjoy the dystopian future you're creating.

GhettoComputers 5y ago

What do you lose? You get iOS apps, much better battery life, a cool and fanless computer, a Unix os with the ability to install Linux. What is the loss you refer to?

scoopertrooper 5y ago

M1 is dramatically better than the top tier AMD mobile offering. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Merciless-Apple-M1-Mac-mini-takes-AMD-Ryzen-9-5900HX-Mini-PC-to-pieces-in-benchmark-obstacle-course.558398.0.html#7819312-5 https://www.notebookcheck.net/Merciless-Apple-M1-Mac-mini-ta...

techrat 5y ago
Nice dishonestly selected single benchmark screenshot. https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m1-vs-amd-ryzen-9-5900hx https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m1-vs-amd-ryzen-... The Ryzen 5900HX is more than 70% faster than the M1 in Cinebench Multicore... and 1% slower in single core. You know. Real world shit. Also. Max 16GB Ram for the M1. L Oh fuckin' L. Even my Celeron laptop could do more than that.
- wtallis 5y ago
  You're responding to a power efficiency result by citing a pair of raw performance results. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, especially when discussing mobile hardware. Differences in power efficiency usually matter a lot more to mobile hardware than differences in raw performance.
  - techrat 5y ago
    The one you're defending... linked a benchmark of the Mac Mini. Not an M1 based Macbook. Try again.
    - wtallis 5y ago
      Using the Mac Mini form factor and a comparable Ryzen mini PC to judge the processors' suitability as mobile chips is certainly less than ideal, but it's not as worthless as you seem to be implying. In particular, this kind of comparison makes it far easier to get a more apples-to-apples comparison of the chips themselves, without other system design decisions as serious confounding variables. You won't find AMD's top mobile chip in any form factor that remotely resembles a MacBook Air, for example. And when trying to compare a MacBook Air against a Ryzen notebook that's 3-4x as thick, you wouldn't be able to make as strong a conclusion that it's the chip itself and not merely the heatsink responsible when the Ryzen does deliver higher performance.