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Not only security. Also privacy! I started to see messages that I know 100% that I deleted days or weeks ago?! https://twitter.com/Pytlicek/status/14450726267

Not only security. Also privacy! I started to see messages that I know 100% that I deleted days or weeks ago?! https://twitter.com/Pytlicek/status/1445072626729242637 https://twitter.com/Pytlicek/status/1445072626729242637

spuz 5y ago
So it appears that WhatsApp are in the process of restoring from backup? Why would they need to do that if it was just a DNS issue? And why would the server be accessible while backup restoration was still in progress? I feel like there is going to be a lot more to this story when it all shakes out.
- pytlicek 5y ago
  Who knows. I use PiHole where all DNS records are cached. Maybe this is the reason why it happens to me. And regards Twitter (obviously), I'm not the only one who is facing this weird behaviour.
- spaceywilly 5y ago
  Once the DNS is back up they need to basically reboot every service. Once server one can’t talk to server two, everything is out of sync and they need to resolve this somehow. They probably have mitigation plans for a few data centers going down, but when it’s all of them at once, that’s going to be a huge pain.
- 0xFF0123 5y ago
  WhatsApp is (at least supposed to be) e2e, so unless they're restoring from every user's personal backup, it seems an unlikely course of action
  - sn_master 5y ago
    e2e does not mean FB isn't keeping the messages on their server. it only means what is kept pn their server is encrypted, that's all. e2e has no impact on message expiration.
  - simias 5y ago
    I don't know how WhatsApp works but e2e doesn't mean that messages can't be cached/stored in their encrypted form. Actually they almost certainly are since otherwise messages couldn't be delivered to recipients while your phone is off/disconnected.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- avh02 5y ago
  Even before E2E - to my knowledge, whatsapp would only store messages until they could be delivered. They never really stored your chats once they made it to their destination - there shouldn't be any "restoring" of backups that brings back messages unless it's just a re-delivery at most. (And honestly, i'd doubt that gets backed up).
nvr219 5y ago
Hopefully that's pulling from local cache or something but yikes
- pytlicek 5y ago
  IMHO no, not. I see messages that are 1 month old. The same I have deleted at least 2-3 weeks ago. Terrible
  - frazzlet 5y ago
    It must be a local cache, because right now Facebook doesn't exist on the internet. It's not loading them from the server.
alksjdalkj 5y ago
If they're restoring from backup that makes sense right? I assume backups are read-only, so deleting messages won't delete them from the backup also. It is sloppy though that you would see anything before the restore was totally done though (including re-deleting messages)
hwers 5y ago
That happened to me on instagram (DMs) a bit of time ago too.
sn_master 5y ago
Before messages had unlimited expiry, FB would auto expire them after few weeks. When they announced messages would remain forever, I went back to check and kept scrolling up until my arm hurts and voila! there they are, messages that expired YEARS ago all of a sudden were visible!

spuz 5y ago

So it appears that WhatsApp are in the process of restoring from backup? Why would they need to do that if it was just a DNS issue? And why would the server be accessible while backup restoration was still in progress? I feel like there is going to be a lot more to this story when it all shakes out.

pytlicek 5y ago
Who knows. I use PiHole where all DNS records are cached. Maybe this is the reason why it happens to me. And regards Twitter (obviously), I'm not the only one who is facing this weird behaviour.
spaceywilly 5y ago
Once the DNS is back up they need to basically reboot every service. Once server one can’t talk to server two, everything is out of sync and they need to resolve this somehow. They probably have mitigation plans for a few data centers going down, but when it’s all of them at once, that’s going to be a huge pain.
0xFF0123 5y ago
WhatsApp is (at least supposed to be) e2e, so unless they're restoring from every user's personal backup, it seems an unlikely course of action
- sn_master 5y ago
  e2e does not mean FB isn't keeping the messages on their server. it only means what is kept pn their server is encrypted, that's all. e2e has no impact on message expiration.
- simias 5y ago
  I don't know how WhatsApp works but e2e doesn't mean that messages can't be cached/stored in their encrypted form. Actually they almost certainly are since otherwise messages couldn't be delivered to recipients while your phone is off/disconnected.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
avh02 5y ago
Even before E2E - to my knowledge, whatsapp would only store messages until they could be delivered. They never really stored your chats once they made it to their destination - there shouldn't be any "restoring" of backups that brings back messages unless it's just a re-delivery at most. (And honestly, i'd doubt that gets backed up).

nvr219 5y ago

Hopefully that's pulling from local cache or something but yikes

pytlicek 5y ago
IMHO no, not. I see messages that are 1 month old. The same I have deleted at least 2-3 weeks ago. Terrible
- frazzlet 5y ago
  It must be a local cache, because right now Facebook doesn't exist on the internet. It's not loading them from the server.

alksjdalkj 5y ago

If they're restoring from backup that makes sense right? I assume backups are read-only, so deleting messages won't delete them from the backup also. It is sloppy though that you would see anything before the restore was totally done though (including re-deleting messages)

hwers 5y ago

That happened to me on instagram (DMs) a bit of time ago too.

sn_master 5y ago

Before messages had unlimited expiry, FB would auto expire them after few weeks. When they announced messages would remain forever, I went back to check and kept scrolling up until my arm hurts and voila! there they are, messages that expired YEARS ago all of a sudden were visible!