4 ms·

The other problem is that there's no reason to assume $SUCCESSFUL_PERSON even knows what made them successful. I was once hanging out with a friend of a friend

by samhw 5y ago

The other problem is that there's no reason to assume $SUCCESSFUL_PERSON even knows what made them successful. I was once hanging out with a friend of a friend who was pretty successful in finance, and he said he could no more explain how he succeeded than I could explain how to ride a bike. These things are often tacit knowledge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacit_knowledge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacit_knowledge), or 'unknown knowns'. In that friend's view - and I think mine too - that's the reason why 'how I succeeded' books by people like Warren Buffett or Bill Ackman almost always turn out to be total dross. Not because they don't want to share their secrets (after all, their secrets would require so much capital to apply as to be impracticable for most) – just that they have no idea. They do know it, at least on some level. For many of them, they could do it again if they had to. They simply aren't consciously aware. (Like Auden once said: "I knew it all the time, but I never realised it before!")

Ozzie_osman 5y ago
Yup. Another analogy is that you probably have a friend (or maybe you are that friend?) who happens to very good attracting (romantic) attention when you go out in public. Ask them what their secret is. They might have some basic, universal things like "dress nicely", "have good hygiene", "get in shape", etc, and those things might help you (10% of the way there), but in reality, they just happened to have been handed some lucky genetics that made them attractive / charismatic, so none of the advice they give you will work (in fact, some of it might back-fire like "smile at strangers"). On the other hand, if you can find the person that _isn't_ naturally good at the skill but was somehow able to get decent at it, even if they're not the best at it, they're more likely to have beneficial advice.
- bumby 5y ago
  >if you can find the person that _isn't_ naturally good at the skill but was somehow able to get decent at it, even if they're not the best at it, they're more likely to have beneficial advice. This reminded me of the advice to learn how to run a marathon, don't look at what most people in the race were doing to train, look at the person who's doing well despite looking like they shouldn't be there. I.e., don't look at the 140 lbs guys at the front of the pack for advice, look to the 280 lb guy in the middle of the pack. Not sure how sage that advice is, but it was an interestingly different way to frame the problem.
- ozim 5y ago
  I really like that take on this topic, my personal story about it was at the university. While studying older students would start talking, how they get a good grade/easy questions because they gave cookies/whatever or how some prof was super cool for them in some way. Of course thing was they probably were in a group that prof liked, they had a good connection, maybe someone from the group had good jokes that made that prof laugh. Maybe they were showing up with whole group to his classes and no one made a fuss or other silly stuff at his lectures. Then freshmen would pick up the story and would try to "trick their way" with the prof that would of course backfire as they totally missed the context of why for the older guys prof was happy with some cookies to ask them "easy" questions. Just being in shape without any context - like how much in shape - might backfire when some girls think you are a buff so probably aggressive and get scared instead of interested. So just trying to talk up a girl on the street while buffed might scare her much more. I would not focus on "natural skill" but I would focus on understanding that there is infinite amount of details to life and whole context is missing if someone gives high level advice.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    Not every woman is attracted to a buffed up man, but far more are than are not. It's all about tilting the odds in your favor.
- svachalek 5y ago
  That makes a lot of sense. Indeed the most charismatic and attractive people I've known rarely seem to have any idea how it works. It comes across as false modesty but it's likely indeed a mystery. People I've known who are financially successful (some massively so) tend to fall into two categories though. Some will say that this and this and that happened just so, and they wouldn't begin to know how someone else could replicate it. Others will say it's just a matter of perseverance and not making stupid mistakes and anyone can do it if they just bothered to, despite ample evidence to the contrary.
  - ignoramous 5y ago
    > Some will say that this and this and that happened just so, and they wouldn't begin to know how someone else could replicate it. Others will say it's just a matter of perseverance and not making stupid mistakes and anyone can do it if they just bothered to, despite ample evidence to the contrary. May be they are both right, since surely there's both a repeatable process [0] and a non-repeatable process [1] to get rich? [0] acquire skill that's highly paid (doctors?); acquire skill needed by rapidly-growing sectors (crypto? biotech?) [1] right place at the right time
- WalterBright 5y ago
  Oh phooey. I know people who are not handsome, and had little success with with the opposite gender. They studied the problem, read everything they could find about it, and applied it. They've become ladies' men. Even unattractive people can do a lot to improve their looks with clothing, diet, and a fitness regimen.
  - Ozzie_osman 5y ago
    But that's exactly my point. You want advice from that person (the not-so-good-looking who found ways), not from the naturally good-looking who didn't need to do anything else.
    - WalterBright 5y ago
      My point is that there are people who do know why they are successful, because they deliberately set out to find out why they failed and not make those mistakes again. I bet they outnumber the ones who don't by a wide margin.
nonameiguess 5y ago
Or assuming that it can be replicated even if it is known. I suspect this is more true of other types of elite performers rather than financially successful people, but imagine asking Mozart or LeBron James how to perform at their level. There is literally nothing you can do until we figure out how to transfer consciousness to a new body.
- samhw 5y ago
  Yeah, totally agree. That factored into my answer too: "their secrets would require so much capital to apply as to be impracticable for most" was my explanation for why they probably wouldn't mind explaining it if they did know. After all, it nets you lots of extra money in book sales, with no real concern that anyone will genuinely read your book and then supplant you.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  LeBron James reportedly works harder than anyone else. That's certainly a factor in him being more successful than the others.
WalterBright 5y ago
As a teenager I marveled at how I rode a bike. It was a complete mystery how turning was done. I thought about turning, and my bike turned. I finally figured it out, by carefully watching what I did when riding very slowly. To turn left, I turned the handlebars ever so slightly to the right. This caused the bike to lean to the left, then I turned the handlebars left.
WalterBright 5y ago
I know many successful people. I know why they are successful. None of them blame others for their problems. They take responsibility. When they fail, they take responsibility, get up, and try again (and do things differently) until it works.

by samhw 5y ago

Ozzie_osman 5y ago

Yup. Another analogy is that you probably have a friend (or maybe you are that friend?) who happens to very good attracting (romantic) attention when you go out in public. Ask them what their secret is. They might have some basic, universal things like "dress nicely", "have good hygiene", "get in shape", etc, and those things might help you (10% of the way there), but in reality, they just happened to have been handed some lucky genetics that made them attractive / charismatic, so none of the advice they give you will work (in fact, some of it might back-fire like "smile at strangers"). On the other hand, if you can find the person that _isn't_ naturally good at the skill but was somehow able to get decent at it, even if they're not the best at it, they're more likely to have beneficial advice.

bumby 5y ago
>if you can find the person that _isn't_ naturally good at the skill but was somehow able to get decent at it, even if they're not the best at it, they're more likely to have beneficial advice. This reminded me of the advice to learn how to run a marathon, don't look at what most people in the race were doing to train, look at the person who's doing well despite looking like they shouldn't be there. I.e., don't look at the 140 lbs guys at the front of the pack for advice, look to the 280 lb guy in the middle of the pack. Not sure how sage that advice is, but it was an interestingly different way to frame the problem.
ozim 5y ago
I really like that take on this topic, my personal story about it was at the university. While studying older students would start talking, how they get a good grade/easy questions because they gave cookies/whatever or how some prof was super cool for them in some way. Of course thing was they probably were in a group that prof liked, they had a good connection, maybe someone from the group had good jokes that made that prof laugh. Maybe they were showing up with whole group to his classes and no one made a fuss or other silly stuff at his lectures. Then freshmen would pick up the story and would try to "trick their way" with the prof that would of course backfire as they totally missed the context of why for the older guys prof was happy with some cookies to ask them "easy" questions. Just being in shape without any context - like how much in shape - might backfire when some girls think you are a buff so probably aggressive and get scared instead of interested. So just trying to talk up a girl on the street while buffed might scare her much more. I would not focus on "natural skill" but I would focus on understanding that there is infinite amount of details to life and whole context is missing if someone gives high level advice.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  Not every woman is attracted to a buffed up man, but far more are than are not. It's all about tilting the odds in your favor.
svachalek 5y ago
That makes a lot of sense. Indeed the most charismatic and attractive people I've known rarely seem to have any idea how it works. It comes across as false modesty but it's likely indeed a mystery. People I've known who are financially successful (some massively so) tend to fall into two categories though. Some will say that this and this and that happened just so, and they wouldn't begin to know how someone else could replicate it. Others will say it's just a matter of perseverance and not making stupid mistakes and anyone can do it if they just bothered to, despite ample evidence to the contrary.
- ignoramous 5y ago
  > Some will say that this and this and that happened just so, and they wouldn't begin to know how someone else could replicate it. Others will say it's just a matter of perseverance and not making stupid mistakes and anyone can do it if they just bothered to, despite ample evidence to the contrary. May be they are both right, since surely there's both a repeatable process [0] and a non-repeatable process [1] to get rich? [0] acquire skill that's highly paid (doctors?); acquire skill needed by rapidly-growing sectors (crypto? biotech?) [1] right place at the right time
WalterBright 5y ago
Oh phooey. I know people who are not handsome, and had little success with with the opposite gender. They studied the problem, read everything they could find about it, and applied it. They've become ladies' men. Even unattractive people can do a lot to improve their looks with clothing, diet, and a fitness regimen.
- Ozzie_osman 5y ago
  But that's exactly my point. You want advice from that person (the not-so-good-looking who found ways), not from the naturally good-looking who didn't need to do anything else.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    My point is that there are people who do know why they are successful, because they deliberately set out to find out why they failed and not make those mistakes again. I bet they outnumber the ones who don't by a wide margin.

nonameiguess 5y ago

Or assuming that it can be replicated even if it is known. I suspect this is more true of other types of elite performers rather than financially successful people, but imagine asking Mozart or LeBron James how to perform at their level. There is literally nothing you can do until we figure out how to transfer consciousness to a new body.

samhw 5y ago
Yeah, totally agree. That factored into my answer too: "their secrets would require so much capital to apply as to be impracticable for most" was my explanation for why they probably wouldn't mind explaining it if they did know. After all, it nets you lots of extra money in book sales, with no real concern that anyone will genuinely read your book and then supplant you.
WalterBright 5y ago
LeBron James reportedly works harder than anyone else. That's certainly a factor in him being more successful than the others.

WalterBright 5y ago

As a teenager I marveled at how I rode a bike. It was a complete mystery how turning was done. I thought about turning, and my bike turned. I finally figured it out, by carefully watching what I did when riding very slowly. To turn left, I turned the handlebars ever so slightly to the right. This caused the bike to lean to the left, then I turned the handlebars left.

WalterBright 5y ago

I know many successful people. I know why they are successful. None of them blame others for their problems. They take responsibility. When they fail, they take responsibility, get up, and try again (and do things differently) until it works.