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> Moving important email to protonmail. https://www.thedailybeast.com/secure-email-provider-protonmail-handed-over-user-data-to-europol https://www.thedailybea

> Moving important email to protonmail. https://www.thedailybeast.com/secure-email-provider-protonmail-handed-over-user-data-to-europol https://www.thedailybeast.com/secure-email-provider-protonma... Protonmail literally gave up the personal info of some French activists who were later arrested...

JasonCannon 5y ago
Because France had a treaty with Switzerland, the home country of protonmail, and Switzerland gave Protonmail a legally binding warant to turn over information. Nothing that Protonmail could do unless they themselves wanted to be arrested.
- idiotsecant 5y ago
  Sounds like a valid complaint about protonmail though, right? They choose their jurisdiction, seems like they may have chosen poorly.
CountDrewku 5y ago
Being legally compelled to hand over data is not the same as actively collecting every single facet of personal info about people for monetary profit bud. Google does exactly what you're upset about ON TOP of a plethora of more insidious things. If you're trying to make a claim that one is equal to the other you're failing miserably.
jefftk 5y ago
ProtonMail was required to do this, under Swiss law. They don't track you by default, but they can be compelled to add logging by their government. This isn't an issue with ProtonMail in particular; any email provider has to follow local laws, and Swiss law is generally a pretty good framework if you have to choose.
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  For the record, I have no issue with Protonmail (or other tech companies) following the law. But their claim was always that email was encrypted and they "don't track you" which was always nonsense. Just like Apple's privacy promises. In the end all tech companies either track you, have the ability to track you, and have to give you up to the relevant authorities.
  - kube-system 5y ago
    I think there's a significant and important difference between collecting data after being presented with a warrant, and collecting data indiscriminately by default.
  - ziddoap 5y ago
    >For the record, I have no issue with Protonmail If this was the case, you would have given the full context in your earlier comment. There is a significant difference between tracking by default and tracking only when issued a court order.
    - Mikeb85 5y ago
      > There is a significant difference between tracking by default and tracking only when issued a court order. Is there? Either your data is on their server or it isn't. As if they can't give data created before a court order to a government after a court order...
      - ziddoap 5y ago
        I can't believe I have to argue that there is a difference between always tracking everything by default and only turning on tracking once a warrant arrives. In one case, you track everything. In the other case, you don't track everything. But you have the ability to turn on logging when required (like, for example, with a warrant). >As if they can't give data created before a court order This is surprisingly simple. You just don't track the data until you have to because of a warrant. Then you say "Sorry, I don't have data before your warrant arrived because we do not track it".

JasonCannon 5y ago

Because France had a treaty with Switzerland, the home country of protonmail, and Switzerland gave Protonmail a legally binding warant to turn over information. Nothing that Protonmail could do unless they themselves wanted to be arrested.

idiotsecant 5y ago
Sounds like a valid complaint about protonmail though, right? They choose their jurisdiction, seems like they may have chosen poorly.

CountDrewku 5y ago

Being legally compelled to hand over data is not the same as actively collecting every single facet of personal info about people for monetary profit bud. Google does exactly what you're upset about ON TOP of a plethora of more insidious things. If you're trying to make a claim that one is equal to the other you're failing miserably.

jefftk 5y ago

ProtonMail was required to do this, under Swiss law. They don't track you by default, but they can be compelled to add logging by their government. This isn't an issue with ProtonMail in particular; any email provider has to follow local laws, and Swiss law is generally a pretty good framework if you have to choose.

Mikeb85 5y ago
For the record, I have no issue with Protonmail (or other tech companies) following the law. But their claim was always that email was encrypted and they "don't track you" which was always nonsense. Just like Apple's privacy promises. In the end all tech companies either track you, have the ability to track you, and have to give you up to the relevant authorities.
- kube-system 5y ago
  I think there's a significant and important difference between collecting data after being presented with a warrant, and collecting data indiscriminately by default.
- ziddoap 5y ago
  >For the record, I have no issue with Protonmail If this was the case, you would have given the full context in your earlier comment. There is a significant difference between tracking by default and tracking only when issued a court order.
  - Mikeb85 5y ago
    > There is a significant difference between tracking by default and tracking only when issued a court order. Is there? Either your data is on their server or it isn't. As if they can't give data created before a court order to a government after a court order...
    - ziddoap 5y ago
      I can't believe I have to argue that there is a difference between always tracking everything by default and only turning on tracking once a warrant arrives. In one case, you track everything. In the other case, you don't track everything. But you have the ability to turn on logging when required (like, for example, with a warrant). >As if they can't give data created before a court order This is surprisingly simple. You just don't track the data until you have to because of a warrant. Then you say "Sorry, I don't have data before your warrant arrived because we do not track it".