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Of note, it appears that Netflix’s gripe wasn’t so much about the 70/30 split as colloquially observed, but that Apple’s IAP saw more “voluntary churn” than Net

Of note, it appears that Netflix’s gripe wasn’t so much about the 70/30 split as colloquially observed, but that Apple’s IAP saw more “voluntary churn” than Netflix’s direct purchase. Am I reading that right? Would this churn discrepancy apply to other services besides Netflix (like developer tools, access to smaller content libraries, etc)? Finally, what did Apple do to address their “voluntary churn” problem?

shkkmo 5y ago
There were a number of issues. My understanding is that Netflix was not paying 30% but rather was paying 15% due to their special agreement with Apple. According to the emails, it was Apple's refusal to go below 15% that triggered Netflix to begin testing not allowing payment via IAP. The "voluntary churn", "promotion coordination" and "revenue sharing" offers are from Apple trying to sweeten the pot to keep Netlfix from dumping IAP completely.
Terretta 5y ago
In other words, Netflix is harder to cancel directly than through Apple's subscription UI. As is the case for virtually every dark pattern subscription (most of them) when not through Apple. This isn't a problem, it's a benefit -- from customer point of view. Apple makes a customer-friendly rather than seller friendly subscription UI, the reason I won't subscribe to things any more except through Apple. It's genuinely surprising to me the proportion of customer hostile rhetoric on this topic.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
  Netflix is very easy to cancel, though? There's a big honking "cancel membership" button on the top level account settings page. It's actually more prominent than other entries on the page. http://imgur.com/a/09XZ9jb http://imgur.com/a/09XZ9jb Also very easy to change your plan level up or down.
  - caylus 5y ago
    Yeah, I would guess that the important difference is that Apple emails a receipt for all subscriptions every month, making it much less likely that someone forgets about their subscription when they no longer regularly use it.
    - r3trohack3r 5y ago
      Netflix auto-cancels inactive accounts, granted it's after 2 years (>$250 in the American market). https://about.netflix.com/en/news/helping-members-who-havent-been-watching-cancel https://about.netflix.com/en/news/helping-members-who-havent...
- yibg 5y ago
  It’s way easier to cancel Netflix via Netflix than the App Store though.
- a_large_rat00 5y ago
  Apple is pretty dark-patterny about the subscriptions too. On Android the refund/uninstall button is right next to the open button in the Play store. You buy an app, don't like it, click a button and return it. I just bought an iPad app the other day (my first), it didn't meet my needs, but I still can't figure out where to go to refund it. And Apple's subscriptions expire immediately if you cancel during a free trial, whereas the Google ones will still let you finish the term of your trial. Apple's not really the good guy either. They're just the powerful ones.
  - jumhyn 5y ago
    > And Apple's subscriptions expire immediately if you cancel during a free trial, whereas the Google ones will still let you finish the term of your trial. Amusingly, this is only the case for Apple's first-party subscriptions. Third-party IAP subscriptions for which you are in the free trial when you cancel will continue to provide "access" until the trial period concludes.

shkkmo 5y ago

There were a number of issues. My understanding is that Netflix was not paying 30% but rather was paying 15% due to their special agreement with Apple. According to the emails, it was Apple's refusal to go below 15% that triggered Netflix to begin testing not allowing payment via IAP. The "voluntary churn", "promotion coordination" and "revenue sharing" offers are from Apple trying to sweeten the pot to keep Netlfix from dumping IAP completely.

Terretta 5y ago

In other words, Netflix is harder to cancel directly than through Apple's subscription UI. As is the case for virtually every dark pattern subscription (most of them) when not through Apple. This isn't a problem, it's a benefit -- from customer point of view. Apple makes a customer-friendly rather than seller friendly subscription UI, the reason I won't subscribe to things any more except through Apple. It's genuinely surprising to me the proportion of customer hostile rhetoric on this topic.

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
Netflix is very easy to cancel, though? There's a big honking "cancel membership" button on the top level account settings page. It's actually more prominent than other entries on the page. http://imgur.com/a/09XZ9jb http://imgur.com/a/09XZ9jb Also very easy to change your plan level up or down.
- caylus 5y ago
  Yeah, I would guess that the important difference is that Apple emails a receipt for all subscriptions every month, making it much less likely that someone forgets about their subscription when they no longer regularly use it.
  - r3trohack3r 5y ago
    Netflix auto-cancels inactive accounts, granted it's after 2 years (>$250 in the American market). https://about.netflix.com/en/news/helping-members-who-havent-been-watching-cancel https://about.netflix.com/en/news/helping-members-who-havent...
yibg 5y ago
It’s way easier to cancel Netflix via Netflix than the App Store though.
a_large_rat00 5y ago
Apple is pretty dark-patterny about the subscriptions too. On Android the refund/uninstall button is right next to the open button in the Play store. You buy an app, don't like it, click a button and return it. I just bought an iPad app the other day (my first), it didn't meet my needs, but I still can't figure out where to go to refund it. And Apple's subscriptions expire immediately if you cancel during a free trial, whereas the Google ones will still let you finish the term of your trial. Apple's not really the good guy either. They're just the powerful ones.
- jumhyn 5y ago
  > And Apple's subscriptions expire immediately if you cancel during a free trial, whereas the Google ones will still let you finish the term of your trial. Amusingly, this is only the case for Apple's first-party subscriptions. Third-party IAP subscriptions for which you are in the free trial when you cancel will continue to provide "access" until the trial period concludes.