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Having this requirement when dealing with tech monopolies is uniquely helpful because in some cases there is no alternative. We can always rent, shop or bank o

Having this requirement when dealing with tech monopolies is uniquely helpful because in some cases there is no alternative. We can always rent, shop or bank other places. I'd argue where there isn't a thriving marketplace of choice monopolies should have to have the same rules with all their partners.

trowapplea12132 5y ago
You can always use other software as well. The only reason HN believe Apple to be a monopoly is because the product they purchased does what it was advertised to do - security through chain of trust via an good-but-imperfect organization. It's only a legal monopoly if the courts say so, and the judge in Epic v Apple defined the market in a way that actually made sense - they aren't a monopoly on mobile game purchases, but they did took anticompetitive actions in that market to stifle competition. > I'd argue where there isn't a thriving marketplace of choice monopolies should have to have the same rules with all their partners. They can't have a monopoly on iPhones because the iPhone isn't a market - it's a device where the App Store is the killer feature. There are other products you can buy that compete with the iPhone and its app store.
- deleted 5y ago
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- djyaz1200 5y ago
  Apple as of years ago was capturing over 90% of all the margin in smartphones (https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/23/apple-captures-record-91-percent-of-global-smartphone-profits-research.html https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/23/apple-captures-record-91-per...). I'd argue that represents a monopoly in paid smartphones. Our option as users is either buy a phone from Apple or accept what is essentially a free service from Google (you have to buy the hardware)... who are giving that away to solidify their search monopoly. This to me doesn't represent a thriving marketplace of user choice.
  - Dracophoenix 5y ago
    90% of global smartphone profits does not mean 90% of devices in the market. It's been demonstrated for years that iPhone users are much more likely to pay for apps. It's possible to be extremely profitable and not have a monopoly on the market because the iPhone isn't just an appliance but a Veblen good as well.
    - zopa 5y ago
      It does however mean Apple has significant market power. Almost by definition: in a very counterfactual perfectly competitive smartphone market, everyone sells at cost and there aren't any profits. Reducing it to monopoly vs. not-a-monopoly is drawing too bright a line. And I don't really think iPhones are a Veblen good exactly. Targeted at higher-income buyers? Yes. Valued as much for design as aesthetics? Absolutely. But pretty sure a $500 iPhone would outsell an otherwise-identical $800 iPhone, nevertheless.

trowapplea12132 5y ago

You can always use other software as well. The only reason HN believe Apple to be a monopoly is because the product they purchased does what it was advertised to do - security through chain of trust via an good-but-imperfect organization. It's only a legal monopoly if the courts say so, and the judge in Epic v Apple defined the market in a way that actually made sense - they aren't a monopoly on mobile game purchases, but they did took anticompetitive actions in that market to stifle competition. > I'd argue where there isn't a thriving marketplace of choice monopolies should have to have the same rules with all their partners. They can't have a monopoly on iPhones because the iPhone isn't a market - it's a device where the App Store is the killer feature. There are other products you can buy that compete with the iPhone and its app store.

deleted 5y ago
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djyaz1200 5y ago
Apple as of years ago was capturing over 90% of all the margin in smartphones (https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/23/apple-captures-record-91-percent-of-global-smartphone-profits-research.html https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/23/apple-captures-record-91-per...). I'd argue that represents a monopoly in paid smartphones. Our option as users is either buy a phone from Apple or accept what is essentially a free service from Google (you have to buy the hardware)... who are giving that away to solidify their search monopoly. This to me doesn't represent a thriving marketplace of user choice.
- Dracophoenix 5y ago
  90% of global smartphone profits does not mean 90% of devices in the market. It's been demonstrated for years that iPhone users are much more likely to pay for apps. It's possible to be extremely profitable and not have a monopoly on the market because the iPhone isn't just an appliance but a Veblen good as well.
  - zopa 5y ago
    It does however mean Apple has significant market power. Almost by definition: in a very counterfactual perfectly competitive smartphone market, everyone sells at cost and there aren't any profits. Reducing it to monopoly vs. not-a-monopoly is drawing too bright a line. And I don't really think iPhones are a Veblen good exactly. Targeted at higher-income buyers? Yes. Valued as much for design as aesthetics? Absolutely. But pretty sure a $500 iPhone would outsell an otherwise-identical $800 iPhone, nevertheless.