8 ms·

Who else sees their deleted messages on WhatsApp that shouldn't be there?

54 points by pytlicek 5y ago

throwawaysea 5y ago
Wow this is a massive breach of trust if true. I am assuming it is some unintentional side effect or bug rather than intentional deception, but still, for a privacy oriented service this is bad.
- pytlicek 5y ago
  Look here: https://twitter.com/Pytlicek/status/1445085177475223559 https://twitter.com/Pytlicek/status/1445085177475223559 I made a few screenshots. This is really really weird :/
  - throwawaysea 5y ago
    I recommend sharing this on some of the other prominent threads about the Facebook outage, here and on Reddit, so that it gets attention and a response.
    - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
      I mean... It's some screenshot of white boxes. I'll believe him but I think the messages were stored on his phone (with a flag to say "message expired, don't show to user"), but to make a believable claim for more people you're going to need to show more than white boxes.
pytlicek 5y ago
https://twitter.com/Pytlicek/status/1445085177475223559 https://twitter.com/Pytlicek/status/1445085177475223559 https://twitter.com/Pytlicek/status/1445094265739173905 https://twitter.com/Pytlicek/status/1445094265739173905
WillSmithPro 5y ago
Oh shit. This is BIG!!!
- peakaboo 5y ago
  I guess but who is surprised? We know the American tech mafia is not following any rules. They just tell the lusers some lies and carries on with collecting their data.
- peakaboo 5y ago
  I guess but who is surprised? We know the American tech mafia is not following any rules.
sureglymop 5y ago
Don't you think this is some sort of caching or something in your WhatsApp client? Since WhatsApp is unreachable, how would your client "retrieve" your deleted messages?
- pytlicek 5y ago
  Who knows. I use PiHole where all DNS records are cached (not chats, nor messages). Maybe this is the reason why it happens to me. And regards Twitter (obviously), I'm not the only one who is facing this weird behaviour.
proc0 5y ago
Not for a second would I have believed they actually delete information. (which is why I've avoided them). Even this site can leak at any time. This whole industry is meant to harvest user information. Richard Stallman tried to warn us. Jaron Lanier called it "siren servers", because they hypnotized people into using their services. I hope this encourages people to question this and and to look for alternatives.
- saurik 5y ago
  FWIW, WhatsApp doesn't know what is in your messages... including your messages that are telling other users to delete messages. They are just an event queue. Personally I don't think they should have implemented "delete" at all as it implies that other users are going to play along with your deletion requests, which is not only totally out of their control but morally shouldn't even be a thing: once you send me a message it is MY data, not your data, and you don't get to delete it unless I agree. It maybe seems awkward that a re-delivery of a deleted message is causing it to resurrect temporarily until the delete event is also re-delivered, but if they "actually delete it"--which I imagine you want--then they might also forget any unique identifier stored with the message, which likely makes it hard to know that this message was both already received and deleted in the past.
  - dng88 5y ago
    You sent something to me … to me … that is my message with your Ip. I can delete it from my system. Ri have full right to do so. Republish it no. But delete yes. Otherwise someone send me a child … or to everyone …
  - proc0 5y ago
    Right, I'm not familiar with their data model or even features, since I don't use it, but bottom line is that users are probably not in control of the data, and what you see in the app is just a client app reconstruction based on your actions and preferences. It sounds that's what you're alluding to. > but if they "actually delete it"--which I imagine you want--then they might also forget any unique identifier stored with the message, which likely makes it hard to know that this message was both already received and deleted in the past. I would expect any messaging app to work like email, where you're also in control of the email server. Once you receive someone else's message, it's in your inbox, and you can delete it forever as well. The email message model is more intuitive, and I would love for modern instant messaging clients to work the same way except in real time. Of course when you have that level of control, you would need to make it paywalled or subscription of some kind.
exabrial 5y ago
If you really trust whatsapp to "delete" things, that's probably the problem.

54 points by pytlicek 5y ago

Wow this is a massive breach of trust if true. I am assuming it is some unintentional side effect or bug rather than intentional deception, but still, for a privacy oriented service this is bad.

pytlicek 5y ago
Look here: https://twitter.com/Pytlicek/status/1445085177475223559 https://twitter.com/Pytlicek/status/1445085177475223559 I made a few screenshots. This is really really weird :/
- throwawaysea 5y ago
  I recommend sharing this on some of the other prominent threads about the Facebook outage, here and on Reddit, so that it gets attention and a response.
  - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
    I mean... It's some screenshot of white boxes. I'll believe him but I think the messages were stored on his phone (with a flag to say "message expired, don't show to user"), but to make a believable claim for more people you're going to need to show more than white boxes.

pytlicek 5y ago

https://twitter.com/Pytlicek/status/1445085177475223559 https://twitter.com/Pytlicek/status/1445085177475223559 https://twitter.com/Pytlicek/status/1445094265739173905 https://twitter.com/Pytlicek/status/1445094265739173905

WillSmithPro 5y ago

Oh shit. This is BIG!!!

peakaboo 5y ago
I guess but who is surprised? We know the American tech mafia is not following any rules. They just tell the lusers some lies and carries on with collecting their data.
peakaboo 5y ago
I guess but who is surprised? We know the American tech mafia is not following any rules.

sureglymop 5y ago

Don't you think this is some sort of caching or something in your WhatsApp client? Since WhatsApp is unreachable, how would your client "retrieve" your deleted messages?

pytlicek 5y ago
Who knows. I use PiHole where all DNS records are cached (not chats, nor messages). Maybe this is the reason why it happens to me. And regards Twitter (obviously), I'm not the only one who is facing this weird behaviour.

proc0 5y ago

Not for a second would I have believed they actually delete information. (which is why I've avoided them). Even this site can leak at any time. This whole industry is meant to harvest user information. Richard Stallman tried to warn us. Jaron Lanier called it "siren servers", because they hypnotized people into using their services. I hope this encourages people to question this and and to look for alternatives.

saurik 5y ago
FWIW, WhatsApp doesn't know what is in your messages... including your messages that are telling other users to delete messages. They are just an event queue. Personally I don't think they should have implemented "delete" at all as it implies that other users are going to play along with your deletion requests, which is not only totally out of their control but morally shouldn't even be a thing: once you send me a message it is MY data, not your data, and you don't get to delete it unless I agree. It maybe seems awkward that a re-delivery of a deleted message is causing it to resurrect temporarily until the delete event is also re-delivered, but if they "actually delete it"--which I imagine you want--then they might also forget any unique identifier stored with the message, which likely makes it hard to know that this message was both already received and deleted in the past.
- dng88 5y ago
  You sent something to me … to me … that is my message with your Ip. I can delete it from my system. Ri have full right to do so. Republish it no. But delete yes. Otherwise someone send me a child … or to everyone …
- proc0 5y ago
  Right, I'm not familiar with their data model or even features, since I don't use it, but bottom line is that users are probably not in control of the data, and what you see in the app is just a client app reconstruction based on your actions and preferences. It sounds that's what you're alluding to. > but if they "actually delete it"--which I imagine you want--then they might also forget any unique identifier stored with the message, which likely makes it hard to know that this message was both already received and deleted in the past. I would expect any messaging app to work like email, where you're also in control of the email server. Once you receive someone else's message, it's in your inbox, and you can delete it forever as well. The email message model is more intuitive, and I would love for modern instant messaging clients to work the same way except in real time. Of course when you have that level of control, you would need to make it paywalled or subscription of some kind.

exabrial 5y ago

If you really trust whatsapp to "delete" things, that's probably the problem.