6 ms·

Apple does the same, no?

by BiteCode_dev 5y ago

i_cannot_hack 5y ago
I've never had any url open in Safari instead of the default browser on macOS.
- mastazi 5y ago
  see this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28748596 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28748596
bogwog 5y ago
Oh, well, in that case it’s okay.
_joel 5y ago
I'm not aware of any links that force open in Safari?
- walrus01 5y ago
  a recent macos installation fresh configuration does try to steer you towards using safari several times with popups and reminders.
  - _joel 5y ago
    Steering and forcing are two different things
  - _arvin 5y ago
    Lol, yes, it is their flagship browser for all of their operating systems. I would sure hope that would be the default behavior or else I’d be getting a lot of phone calls from family members. Edit: mods quickly downvoting my comment. Okay. Will tell Paul Graham. Edit 2: every HN comment should lack any emotion or anything. Just robotic comments. Got it. Edit 3: Do better. Edit 4: HN bubble thinks they’re above everyone else. Have a good one.
- smt88 5y ago
  On iOS, all links open in Safari because Apple doesn't allow any other browser. The "alternatives" are just wrappers. So Apple is actually worse than Microsoft.
  - kitsunesoba 5y ago
    Third party browsers on iOS use the same web engine as Safari (WebKit) but critically, do not wrap Safari itself. In principle third party iOS browsers are no more wrappers of Safari than fully independent desktop Linux browsers built with WebKit like Epiphany/GNOME Web and Midori. The various Chromium based browsers are much closer to being Chrome wrappers than, say, Firefox for iOS is a Safari wrapper because the latter has totally unique code for UI, interactions, password management, etc whereas the former is literally just Chromium with a few surface level changes. Apple could stand to allow third party web engines either way (perhaps with strict performance requirements, to not destroy user batteries), but I think the distinction matters.
- kenny11 5y ago
  Go to the Finder and choose "See What's New in macOS" from the help menu. Always opens in Safari regardless of what the default browser is.
  - jefftk 5y ago
    Confirmed. On my mac it opens https://help.apple.com/macos/big-sur/whats-new/ https://help.apple.com/macos/big-sur/whats-new/ in Safari.
_arvin 5y ago
You get to choose which app is default app in iOS 15 and 14 as well I believe and maybe even before that. Not forced, just the default.
- _arvin 5y ago
  Look at the downvoted coming. Wow. 10 points loss in like 30 minutes. Pathetic forum. Have fun in you echo chambers. You’re no better than Reddit with the Gen Z crowd taking over. Congratulations, HN mods. Telling Paul Graham.
  - _arvin 5y ago
    Volunteers with no purpose and meaning in life stifling discussion in a forum. Because of their bogus forum rules. Have fun downvoting this one too, mod. Telling Paul Graham about you.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - Shared404 5y ago
      Get a life. Saying something that gets you downvoted isn't something to be proud of, or ashamed of. Go troll someplace else, and stop wasting my bandwidth with your complaints about nothing please.
      - _arvin 5y ago
        You’re a pathetic loser. Just want you to know that. Cheers.
        Shared404 5y ago
        Someone once told me not to take criticism from someone I wouldn't take advice from ;)
    - samcal 5y ago
warning26 5y ago
Apple is fine on macOS — changing your default browser is a simple setting. Their behavior on iOS, though (outright preventing installation of other browsers) should be illegal, IMO.
- blowski 5y ago
  I think the OP was referring to the practice of "encouraging" users to sign up for iCloud, buy an Apple Watch, iPhone, iPad, Apple Music, Apple TV, Apple Arcade... and use Apple Sheets, Apple Mail, Apple News, Apple Maps, iMovie, Garage Band, etc. I'm sure they would argue they're just providing a seamless experience for users, but I imagine there's a tiny bit of business interest in there as well.
  - skohan 5y ago
    Apple tries to sell you, but I feel like they are better on dark patterns. Whenever I use Windows, I feel like I have to be actively on-guard against the OS subverting my intentions. There are a lot of problems with the Apple ecosystem, but that isn't really one of them.
- blacksmith_tb 5y ago
  'Fine' is generous I would say, Big Sur likes to throw up notifications inviting me to 'try the new Safari' because FF is my default browser. That's not miles from the way MS is behaving with Edge.
- TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
  Have you tried changing the default app for .docx files? It just does not work. Right click on a .docx file in Finder. Hold down the Option key and you'll see "Open With" change to "Always Open With". Select LibreOffice or whatever you want. OK, that file now opens with LireOffice. But no other. WTF? This is no "simple setting" and is the same BS that MS does.
  - j_koreth 5y ago
    If you right click and go to the open with menu and scroll to other, there's a checkbox with the finder window called "Always Open With". This way you don't need to remember which button to hold down.
Someone1234 5y ago
Yes. Ultimately though regardless of who is doing it, it is user hostile and needs to stop. Apple restricting browser engines on iOS doesn't somehow make Microsoft's steering and suppression of other browsers on Windows acceptable. The US needs much better consumer protections.
pdpi 5y ago
Not quite, no. As a user, Apple allows you to change your default browser in both iOS and macOS quite easily. As a developer you can build a browser on top of whatever rendering engine you want, as long as you want to use the built-in WebKit. Crucially, they are plenty clear about what is, or isn't allowed (well, mostly — plenty of app review horror stories around here), and all of that happens in the interaction with developers. The user experience is always pretty decent, and you don't have to deal with this whole "do this in 10 locations" nonsense.
notriddle 5y ago
Not really. In the Apple ecosystem, stuff either works or it doesn't. iOS doesn't let you install alternative browser engines. macOS does. Both of them let you use a browser shell of your choice. None of this "you can install a browser, but we're going to lie cheat and steal to stop you" dark patterns nonsense. As a user, Apple just tells you No, and you get to decide if you want to live with that or not.
- mastazi 5y ago
  That same dark pattern exists on MacOS, even though it's less widely used https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28748596 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28748596

Apple does the same, no?

i_cannot_hack 5y ago

I've never had any url open in Safari instead of the default browser on macOS.

mastazi 5y ago
see this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28748596 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28748596

bogwog 5y ago

Oh, well, in that case it’s okay.

_joel 5y ago

I'm not aware of any links that force open in Safari?

walrus01 5y ago
a recent macos installation fresh configuration does try to steer you towards using safari several times with popups and reminders.
- _joel 5y ago
  Steering and forcing are two different things
- _arvin 5y ago
  Lol, yes, it is their flagship browser for all of their operating systems. I would sure hope that would be the default behavior or else I’d be getting a lot of phone calls from family members. Edit: mods quickly downvoting my comment. Okay. Will tell Paul Graham. Edit 2: every HN comment should lack any emotion or anything. Just robotic comments. Got it. Edit 3: Do better. Edit 4: HN bubble thinks they’re above everyone else. Have a good one.
smt88 5y ago
On iOS, all links open in Safari because Apple doesn't allow any other browser. The "alternatives" are just wrappers. So Apple is actually worse than Microsoft.
- kitsunesoba 5y ago
  Third party browsers on iOS use the same web engine as Safari (WebKit) but critically, do not wrap Safari itself. In principle third party iOS browsers are no more wrappers of Safari than fully independent desktop Linux browsers built with WebKit like Epiphany/GNOME Web and Midori. The various Chromium based browsers are much closer to being Chrome wrappers than, say, Firefox for iOS is a Safari wrapper because the latter has totally unique code for UI, interactions, password management, etc whereas the former is literally just Chromium with a few surface level changes. Apple could stand to allow third party web engines either way (perhaps with strict performance requirements, to not destroy user batteries), but I think the distinction matters.
kenny11 5y ago
Go to the Finder and choose "See What's New in macOS" from the help menu. Always opens in Safari regardless of what the default browser is.
- jefftk 5y ago
  Confirmed. On my mac it opens https://help.apple.com/macos/big-sur/whats-new/ https://help.apple.com/macos/big-sur/whats-new/ in Safari.

_arvin 5y ago

You get to choose which app is default app in iOS 15 and 14 as well I believe and maybe even before that. Not forced, just the default.

_arvin 5y ago
Look at the downvoted coming. Wow. 10 points loss in like 30 minutes. Pathetic forum. Have fun in you echo chambers. You’re no better than Reddit with the Gen Z crowd taking over. Congratulations, HN mods. Telling Paul Graham.
- _arvin 5y ago
  Volunteers with no purpose and meaning in life stifling discussion in a forum. Because of their bogus forum rules. Have fun downvoting this one too, mod. Telling Paul Graham about you.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - Shared404 5y ago
    Get a life. Saying something that gets you downvoted isn't something to be proud of, or ashamed of. Go troll someplace else, and stop wasting my bandwidth with your complaints about nothing please.
    - _arvin 5y ago
      You’re a pathetic loser. Just want you to know that. Cheers.
      - Shared404 5y ago
        Someone once told me not to take criticism from someone I wouldn't take advice from ;)
  - samcal 5y ago

warning26 5y ago

Apple is fine on macOS — changing your default browser is a simple setting. Their behavior on iOS, though (outright preventing installation of other browsers) should be illegal, IMO.

blowski 5y ago
I think the OP was referring to the practice of "encouraging" users to sign up for iCloud, buy an Apple Watch, iPhone, iPad, Apple Music, Apple TV, Apple Arcade... and use Apple Sheets, Apple Mail, Apple News, Apple Maps, iMovie, Garage Band, etc. I'm sure they would argue they're just providing a seamless experience for users, but I imagine there's a tiny bit of business interest in there as well.
- skohan 5y ago
  Apple tries to sell you, but I feel like they are better on dark patterns. Whenever I use Windows, I feel like I have to be actively on-guard against the OS subverting my intentions. There are a lot of problems with the Apple ecosystem, but that isn't really one of them.
blacksmith_tb 5y ago
'Fine' is generous I would say, Big Sur likes to throw up notifications inviting me to 'try the new Safari' because FF is my default browser. That's not miles from the way MS is behaving with Edge.
TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
Have you tried changing the default app for .docx files? It just does not work. Right click on a .docx file in Finder. Hold down the Option key and you'll see "Open With" change to "Always Open With". Select LibreOffice or whatever you want. OK, that file now opens with LireOffice. But no other. WTF? This is no "simple setting" and is the same BS that MS does.
- j_koreth 5y ago
  If you right click and go to the open with menu and scroll to other, there's a checkbox with the finder window called "Always Open With". This way you don't need to remember which button to hold down.

Someone1234 5y ago

Yes. Ultimately though regardless of who is doing it, it is user hostile and needs to stop. Apple restricting browser engines on iOS doesn't somehow make Microsoft's steering and suppression of other browsers on Windows acceptable. The US needs much better consumer protections.

pdpi 5y ago

Not quite, no. As a user, Apple allows you to change your default browser in both iOS and macOS quite easily. As a developer you can build a browser on top of whatever rendering engine you want, as long as you want to use the built-in WebKit. Crucially, they are plenty clear about what is, or isn't allowed (well, mostly — plenty of app review horror stories around here), and all of that happens in the interaction with developers. The user experience is always pretty decent, and you don't have to deal with this whole "do this in 10 locations" nonsense.

notriddle 5y ago

Not really. In the Apple ecosystem, stuff either works or it doesn't. iOS doesn't let you install alternative browser engines. macOS does. Both of them let you use a browser shell of your choice. None of this "you can install a browser, but we're going to lie cheat and steal to stop you" dark patterns nonsense. As a user, Apple just tells you No, and you get to decide if you want to live with that or not.

mastazi 5y ago
That same dark pattern exists on MacOS, even though it's less widely used https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28748596 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28748596