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The national grid is barely keeping up with current demand for electricity, I will be astounded if we manage to pull off anything nearing a reasonable solution

The national grid is barely keeping up with current demand for electricity, I will be astounded if we manage to pull off anything nearing a reasonable solution to electrifying private vehicles. With the government imposing a ban on the manufacture of ICE vehicles this decade, we have an upper limit of what, 20 years before ICE vehicles are being run into the ground? Great for ICE mechanics in the UK I suppose. My dad recently retired from a team building substations all over the UK, using equipment from a well-respected European vendor, he noted that the contract has now gone to someone else making inferior equipment which he and other retired/semi-retired members of his team have been called back in to help rectify, in part because the skills and experience required exist with a very select few old-guard who've been doing the job for decades. Aside from that potentially not going well in the log run, I don't see how we can be ready, or even close to ready for electrification of private vehicles unless every parking space in the country becomes a charging point and huge additional power supplies are created. The Shell garage near my home, in a London borough is so far from anything useful, that if you manage to get one of the 3 electric charging stations there, you're either grabbing an Uber to head somewhere, or waiting in your car until it's charged, how are we going to work around the productivity decline of having to wait hours to charge up? Don't get me wrong, I would absolutely love to own and drive an EV but it's so impractical that I can't even consider it. It's an interesting problem that will be entertaining to watch play out, one way or another.

onethought 5y ago
To combat your anecdata: I have an ev, and a pile of solar, I charge at home on a standard plug that goes into a wall socket. I don’t use any grid power and my car stays charged. I don’t put any strain on the grid. Pretty obvious how ev ownership will play out. More chargers, more pv.
- alias_neo 5y ago
  I'm not sure what "more pv" means here, apologies. I see your point, in your situation that's great, but I live in an Nth floor apartment in a London borough, I don't have an option for solar, nor for a wall socket to power an EV, nor do any of my neighbours. We're entirely at the mercy of Freeholders to consider putting EV charging in and _only_ charging us the price of a small motor vehicle for the privilege, if they'll do it at all. I suspect a significant percentage of the population, who like myself live in large cities or suburbs are in a similar position. Someone told me recently that a mandate is now in place for new-build to at least build infrastructure to support EV chargers in bays, even if they're not built ahead of time. Of course given the racket that is property development, they'll not put them in and charge you a pretty penny to add it after the fact.
  - signaturefish 5y ago
    pv == photovoltaics - rooftop solar panels, in this case.
  - onethought 5y ago
    I would guess that charge stations in place of existing petrol/gas stations will become a thing, they will have very large solar installs. I think solar will find its way onto every surface we can get it on. Distributed power networks are much easier to deal with than centralised ones. You are right property developers are likely to shirk their responsibility here. But I think there will be a lot of charge Business popping up, doing deals with councils etc
londons_explore 5y ago
> The national grid is barely keeping up with current demand for electricity, Citation needed... The national grid transports less power today than it did 40 years ago, despite a much bigger population.
- alias_neo 5y ago
  The statement was incorrect, I agree, I've clarified my point in response to another comment, I'll leave it as-is for the integrity of the discussion.
leoedin 5y ago
> The national grid is barely keeping up with current demand for electricity, I will be astounded if we manage to pull off anything nearing a reasonable solution to electrifying private vehicles. That's simply untrue - National Grid don't forsee a problem. [1] Peak power usage in the UK was in 2005 - energy saving measures have been reducing it ever since. [2] The grid is today only delivering around 70% of the power it delivered in 2005. Electric cars individually may have high peak charging loads, but if you calculate the total average power draw per car over a years driving, it's only about 200W. We may have to implement some level of demand management either in the cars or car chargers, but that's not particularly complicated - all the infrastructure already exists. I do agree that the charging infrastructure is a long way off. Every street of terraced houses needs to be dug up and wired up with regular spaced charging points. [1]: https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-stories/can-grid-cope-extra-demand-electric-cars https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-sto... [2]: https://theconversation.com/britains-electricity-use-is-at-its-lowest-for-decades-but-will-never-be-this-low-again-152360 https://theconversation.com/britains-electricity-use-is-at-i...
- alias_neo 5y ago
  Fair points. Perhaps I was a little overzealous with that statement, I'm not going to change it as it's critical (by incorrect) to this discussion. The problem, as I understand it, is with the condition of the grid, not its capacity. I know homes in London who literally have flickering lights and power issues as a regular occurrence, I've experienced it myself, it's large cities like London which would benefit most from complete electrification of vehicles and the supplies and equipment is ageing. With tenders being awarded to those who claim to be the most carbon-neutral (National Grid's words) as opposed to actually providing high quality equipment (warning: my opinion), I foresee the problem worsening.

onethought 5y ago

To combat your anecdata: I have an ev, and a pile of solar, I charge at home on a standard plug that goes into a wall socket. I don’t use any grid power and my car stays charged. I don’t put any strain on the grid. Pretty obvious how ev ownership will play out. More chargers, more pv.

alias_neo 5y ago
I'm not sure what "more pv" means here, apologies. I see your point, in your situation that's great, but I live in an Nth floor apartment in a London borough, I don't have an option for solar, nor for a wall socket to power an EV, nor do any of my neighbours. We're entirely at the mercy of Freeholders to consider putting EV charging in and _only_ charging us the price of a small motor vehicle for the privilege, if they'll do it at all. I suspect a significant percentage of the population, who like myself live in large cities or suburbs are in a similar position. Someone told me recently that a mandate is now in place for new-build to at least build infrastructure to support EV chargers in bays, even if they're not built ahead of time. Of course given the racket that is property development, they'll not put them in and charge you a pretty penny to add it after the fact.
- signaturefish 5y ago
  pv == photovoltaics - rooftop solar panels, in this case.
- onethought 5y ago
  I would guess that charge stations in place of existing petrol/gas stations will become a thing, they will have very large solar installs. I think solar will find its way onto every surface we can get it on. Distributed power networks are much easier to deal with than centralised ones. You are right property developers are likely to shirk their responsibility here. But I think there will be a lot of charge Business popping up, doing deals with councils etc

londons_explore 5y ago

> The national grid is barely keeping up with current demand for electricity, Citation needed... The national grid transports less power today than it did 40 years ago, despite a much bigger population.

alias_neo 5y ago
The statement was incorrect, I agree, I've clarified my point in response to another comment, I'll leave it as-is for the integrity of the discussion.

leoedin 5y ago

> The national grid is barely keeping up with current demand for electricity, I will be astounded if we manage to pull off anything nearing a reasonable solution to electrifying private vehicles. That's simply untrue - National Grid don't forsee a problem. [1] Peak power usage in the UK was in 2005 - energy saving measures have been reducing it ever since. [2] The grid is today only delivering around 70% of the power it delivered in 2005. Electric cars individually may have high peak charging loads, but if you calculate the total average power draw per car over a years driving, it's only about 200W. We may have to implement some level of demand management either in the cars or car chargers, but that's not particularly complicated - all the infrastructure already exists. I do agree that the charging infrastructure is a long way off. Every street of terraced houses needs to be dug up and wired up with regular spaced charging points. [1]: https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-stories/can-grid-cope-extra-demand-electric-cars https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-sto... [2]: https://theconversation.com/britains-electricity-use-is-at-its-lowest-for-decades-but-will-never-be-this-low-again-152360 https://theconversation.com/britains-electricity-use-is-at-i...

alias_neo 5y ago
Fair points. Perhaps I was a little overzealous with that statement, I'm not going to change it as it's critical (by incorrect) to this discussion. The problem, as I understand it, is with the condition of the grid, not its capacity. I know homes in London who literally have flickering lights and power issues as a regular occurrence, I've experienced it myself, it's large cities like London which would benefit most from complete electrification of vehicles and the supplies and equipment is ageing. With tenders being awarded to those who claim to be the most carbon-neutral (National Grid's words) as opposed to actually providing high quality equipment (warning: my opinion), I foresee the problem worsening.