5 ms·

That seems like a bold move. I would have expected that 90% wanted a Fusion exclusively to be able to run x86 operating systems.

vintagedave 5y ago
Very much. I have a bunch of Windows x64 VMs that I do not want to convert to ARM (even just for the time it would take to migrate over to new VMs), plus a x64 Windows 7 VM. The value of virtual machines is to be able to virtualise a specific platform! That Win7 machine has software that needs to keep running. There is no Win10 porting or equivalent.
protomyth 5y ago
That would be the only reason I would continue to pay for the product. Prepping a VM on my desktop to move into VSphere or running an older Mac OS to run 32-bit software are my use cases.
- mirekrusin 5y ago
  x86 is dying in front of our eyes. I've been using M1 exclusively for work for couple of months. I was a bit sceptical, initially I thought tons of stuff will not work. But all except one thing works perfectly. That one thing being mssql server. Microsoft provides azure flavoured ARM docker image for mssql but it's shit slow - so slow I can't use it for development. So I'm running Ubuntu on Ryzen in the background (no monitor, just multipass/docker/k8s <<btw. multipass is awsome to spin vms using local dhcp - vms just feel like physical boxes>>). Once Microsoft provides mssql docker image for ARM, I'm ready to drop all Intel/AMD heaters, maybe after winter season? ps. currently 2 out of 459 processes on my desktop are running in x86 emulation; sourcetree and some speech synthesis thing.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    Conversely, I got an M1 machine for work and I've found that it's pretty useless unless your workload has been specifically tuned for it (like YouTube browsing or Twitter scrolling). There's no way in hell I'm using Rosetta to compile my x86 binaries, especially on a professional basis.
  - vegai_ 5y ago
    Well, I just got a new Thinkpad. In it, Ryzen 59something. Granted, I never got to try M1s, but this is plenty faster than my the Macbook Pro "16 for anything, and I hardly ever hear the fan. Battery life is still something that Apple has an upper hand on, but other than that, x86 seems to still be doing well.
  - COM2323 5y ago
    Dying? We have one decent ARM CPU that is limited to specific locked down platform/manufacturer. I believe that "x86 is dying" when the situation is reversed.
- azalemeth 5y ago
  Exactly. I have a lot of dev toolchains that are basically VMs -- the fact that I can't use them on the M1 is the thing keeping from jumping ship to the M1. I can't be the only person for whom this is true. I'm really surprised that nobody has done this yet, even if it's slow.
  - robostac 5y ago
    QEMU does do x86 emulation (and UTM provides a nice frontend) but it's not something I'd want to use often as the speed is horrendous.
  - m_st 5y ago
    Same here. Working with a new Dell XPS15 instead now.
donatj 5y ago
I feel like 95% of the use case for UI’d virtualization is running Windows, and being unable to do so I suspect they will lose most of their business? I could very well be wrong here, but I don’t think running Desktop Linux in a VM is a very large market, and I would just use Docker to run CLI tools. There aren’t really any Killer X Windows Apps that won’t run natively on macOS?
- shawnz 5y ago
  Windows is available for ARM, and it supports emulation of x86 apps just like Rosetta. I am using it right now on Parallels and it works fine for me. I suspect they just don't want to publicly commit to Windows compatibility due to licensing issues.
  - sithadmin 5y ago
    The licensing concerns do play a factor. VMware also makes it difficult to run Mac OS VMs on Workstation for the same reason. (Source: I recently left VMware)
  - Mindwipe 5y ago
    > Windows is available for ARM, and it supports emulation of x86 apps just like Rosetta. Not really. It is a long way behind Rosetta. (Partially because Apple only built the M1 to be optimised for running Mac apps in emulation, partially because Apple had spent five years deprecating older software very aggressively so nobody expected those things to work, partially because it's genuinely hard, and partially because it's not very good.)
    - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
      It's not really readily available either, only a preview build.
  - michelb 5y ago
    I believe Parallels has chosen to ignore/sidestep the licensing issues by using the Windows Client ARM64 Insider Preview builds. We'll have to see what happens when the Insider Preview builds stop being produced.
m_st 5y ago
Same here. Remember Connectix (later Microsoft) Virtual PC? To run x86 Windows on your PPC Macintosh? That's the sort of gap I thought VMware was waiting to fill before releasing the new VMware Fusion. What a let down.
- mrpippy 5y ago
  This is a tech preview (“public beta”), not a release. And they won’t be releasing a new paid version of Fusion this year, so this will stay a free public beta for a while. Also, VMware is ready to add ARM64 Windows support if Microsoft creates a legitimate way to license it.
tzs 5y ago
Indeed. Looking at my usage, it is: 99% running Linux, mostly a VM on which I run copies of most of my employer's non-infrastructure software for development and testing. 0.9% running Windows. 0.1% running MacOS. Generally this is only when I've found some bug and want to reproduce it on a clean system to make sure it is not just due to something I misconfigured before reporting it. Is Debian ARM Linux going to work on an M1 under VMware Fusion? If so, maybe I'd still find VMware Fusion useful on an M1 (we use Debian at work, and I'm fine using Debian for my personal VMs that need Linux).

vintagedave 5y ago

Very much. I have a bunch of Windows x64 VMs that I do not want to convert to ARM (even just for the time it would take to migrate over to new VMs), plus a x64 Windows 7 VM. The value of virtual machines is to be able to virtualise a specific platform! That Win7 machine has software that needs to keep running. There is no Win10 porting or equivalent.

protomyth 5y ago

That would be the only reason I would continue to pay for the product. Prepping a VM on my desktop to move into VSphere or running an older Mac OS to run 32-bit software are my use cases.

mirekrusin 5y ago
x86 is dying in front of our eyes. I've been using M1 exclusively for work for couple of months. I was a bit sceptical, initially I thought tons of stuff will not work. But all except one thing works perfectly. That one thing being mssql server. Microsoft provides azure flavoured ARM docker image for mssql but it's shit slow - so slow I can't use it for development. So I'm running Ubuntu on Ryzen in the background (no monitor, just multipass/docker/k8s <<btw. multipass is awsome to spin vms using local dhcp - vms just feel like physical boxes>>). Once Microsoft provides mssql docker image for ARM, I'm ready to drop all Intel/AMD heaters, maybe after winter season? ps. currently 2 out of 459 processes on my desktop are running in x86 emulation; sourcetree and some speech synthesis thing.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  Conversely, I got an M1 machine for work and I've found that it's pretty useless unless your workload has been specifically tuned for it (like YouTube browsing or Twitter scrolling). There's no way in hell I'm using Rosetta to compile my x86 binaries, especially on a professional basis.
- vegai_ 5y ago
  Well, I just got a new Thinkpad. In it, Ryzen 59something. Granted, I never got to try M1s, but this is plenty faster than my the Macbook Pro "16 for anything, and I hardly ever hear the fan. Battery life is still something that Apple has an upper hand on, but other than that, x86 seems to still be doing well.
- COM2323 5y ago
  Dying? We have one decent ARM CPU that is limited to specific locked down platform/manufacturer. I believe that "x86 is dying" when the situation is reversed.
azalemeth 5y ago
Exactly. I have a lot of dev toolchains that are basically VMs -- the fact that I can't use them on the M1 is the thing keeping from jumping ship to the M1. I can't be the only person for whom this is true. I'm really surprised that nobody has done this yet, even if it's slow.
- robostac 5y ago
  QEMU does do x86 emulation (and UTM provides a nice frontend) but it's not something I'd want to use often as the speed is horrendous.
- m_st 5y ago
  Same here. Working with a new Dell XPS15 instead now.

donatj 5y ago

I feel like 95% of the use case for UI’d virtualization is running Windows, and being unable to do so I suspect they will lose most of their business? I could very well be wrong here, but I don’t think running Desktop Linux in a VM is a very large market, and I would just use Docker to run CLI tools. There aren’t really any Killer X Windows Apps that won’t run natively on macOS?

shawnz 5y ago
Windows is available for ARM, and it supports emulation of x86 apps just like Rosetta. I am using it right now on Parallels and it works fine for me. I suspect they just don't want to publicly commit to Windows compatibility due to licensing issues.
- sithadmin 5y ago
  The licensing concerns do play a factor. VMware also makes it difficult to run Mac OS VMs on Workstation for the same reason. (Source: I recently left VMware)
- Mindwipe 5y ago
  > Windows is available for ARM, and it supports emulation of x86 apps just like Rosetta. Not really. It is a long way behind Rosetta. (Partially because Apple only built the M1 to be optimised for running Mac apps in emulation, partially because Apple had spent five years deprecating older software very aggressively so nobody expected those things to work, partially because it's genuinely hard, and partially because it's not very good.)
  - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    It's not really readily available either, only a preview build.
- michelb 5y ago
  I believe Parallels has chosen to ignore/sidestep the licensing issues by using the Windows Client ARM64 Insider Preview builds. We'll have to see what happens when the Insider Preview builds stop being produced.

m_st 5y ago

Same here. Remember Connectix (later Microsoft) Virtual PC? To run x86 Windows on your PPC Macintosh? That's the sort of gap I thought VMware was waiting to fill before releasing the new VMware Fusion. What a let down.

mrpippy 5y ago
This is a tech preview (“public beta”), not a release. And they won’t be releasing a new paid version of Fusion this year, so this will stay a free public beta for a while. Also, VMware is ready to add ARM64 Windows support if Microsoft creates a legitimate way to license it.

tzs 5y ago

Indeed. Looking at my usage, it is: 99% running Linux, mostly a VM on which I run copies of most of my employer's non-infrastructure software for development and testing. 0.9% running Windows. 0.1% running MacOS. Generally this is only when I've found some bug and want to reproduce it on a clean system to make sure it is not just due to something I misconfigured before reporting it. Is Debian ARM Linux going to work on an M1 under VMware Fusion? If so, maybe I'd still find VMware Fusion useful on an M1 (we use Debian at work, and I'm fine using Debian for my personal VMs that need Linux).