5 ms·

This is cool and all, but why am I looking at black and white photos in 2021 sent from something launched in 2018?

Fronzie 5y ago
Because it's a scientific instrument and there's surprisingly little science value in capturing the other visible-light wavelengths.
- skywal_l 5y ago
  Indeed but there is a great marketing value though. And these missions rely on being marketed to the public for continued funding.
  - SiempreViernes 5y ago
    ESA funding isn't really politicised that way since it's a international organisation and no single politician can get their names on things.
    - adolph 5y ago
      All Member States contribute to these programmes on a scale based on their Gross National Product (GNP). The other programmes, known as ‘optional’, are only of interest to some Member States, who are free to decide on their level of involvement. https://www.esa.int/About_Us/Corporate_news/Funding https://www.esa.int/About_Us/Corporate_news/Funding
    - dotancohen 5y ago
      Good thing that Giuseppe Colombo wasn't a politician!
  - bregma 5y ago
    They could probably get more funding if they reduced the amount of science the probes do so they could insert sell and insert advertizing into the data stream.
- guntars 5y ago
  Yet there's a fantastic PR and public value. The resolution is also only 1024x1024.
  - pengaru 5y ago
    I'm more forgiving on the resolution front, my assumption is space isn't the greatest place for a very high density sensor. Historically it's been discouraged to bring digital cameras on planes without shielding since the sensors get damaged cells. But why they're not just sticking an array of sensors everywhere they've got the b&w sensor, with fixed color filters in front of them, escapes me. Even smartphones are starting to look like insect eyes with the number of lenses in front of dedicated sensors. You'd also get the advantage of some redundancy.
    - wumpus 5y ago
      How much money do you want them to spend to do it your way, instead of doing what's needed to maximize science?
      - guntars 5y ago
        You don't think this is worth the money, assuming no scientific value? https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/system/resources/detail_files/933_BIG_P_COLOR_2_TRUE_COLOR1_1980.jpg https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/system/resources/detail_files/9... Source: NASA/Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory/Southwest Research Institute/Alex Parker Published: July 23, 2018 This is the most accurate natural color images of Pluto taken by NASA's New Horizons spacecraft in 2015. These natural-color images result from refined calibration of data gathered by New Horizons' color Multispectral Visible Imaging Camera (MVIC). The processing creates images that would approximate the colors that the human eye would perceive, bringing them closer to “true color” than the images released near the encounter. This image was taken as New Horizons zipped toward Pluto and its moons on July 14, 2015, from a range of 22,025 miles (35,445) kilometers. This single color MVIC scan includes no data from other New Horizons imagers or instruments added. The striking features on Pluto are clearly visible, including the bright expanse of Pluto's icy, nitrogen-and-methane rich "heart," Sputnik Planitia. https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/resources/933/true-colors-of-pluto/ https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/resources/933/true-colors-of-pl...
SiempreViernes 5y ago
It's a navigation camera, not output from any main instrument so it doesn't come with a filter wheel. The importance factor is having very good linear response to incoming light, not making good phone backgrounds.
stiller 5y ago
The images were taken using the monitoring cameras: https://www.esa.int/ESA_Multimedia/Images/2018/10/BepiColombo_monitoring_cameras https://www.esa.int/ESA_Multimedia/Images/2018/10/BepiColomb... Images using primary instruments will follow when it reaches orbit in 2025.
m4rtink 5y ago
Does the surface of Mercury actually show any perceptible color or is it just basically grayscale like the Moon ?
- ojosilva 5y ago
  It's even greyer than the Moon apparently. Unless this mission finds an active volcano, which I doubt it will, or some other colorful feature hidden from the previous missions, I think that's pretty much it, nothing but shades of grey. https://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/targetFamily/Mercury https://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/targetFamily/Mercury
- Tepix 5y ago
  It has some subdued colours such as brown and light blue. Here's a previous NASA image: https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap110331.html https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap110331.html Here's an image with exaggerated colours: https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap110616.html https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap110616.html
- xioxox 5y ago
  BepiColombo has an X-ray telescope on board which will measure the X-ray colours of the planet from X-ray fluorescence. This will be interesting, as it will enable the composition of the surface to be measured down to 10 km scales [1]. [1] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11214-020-00750-2 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11214-020-00750-2
- adrian_b 5y ago
  The most abundant minerals in rocks in the solar system are white oxides, except for the iron(II) and manganese oxides, which are blackish. So most rocks are gray, unless they have been exposed to oxygen, which converts the black iron oxide into red iron oxide, in which case the rocks turn from some gray shade to some brown shade. Where there has been water, the water could have been dissociated by light, providing oxygen for the change of color. In the absence of water, there are few chances for anything else that could change the color of the rocks from gray.

Because it's a scientific instrument and there's surprisingly little science value in capturing the other visible-light wavelengths.

skywal_l 5y ago
Indeed but there is a great marketing value though. And these missions rely on being marketed to the public for continued funding.
- SiempreViernes 5y ago
  ESA funding isn't really politicised that way since it's a international organisation and no single politician can get their names on things.
  - adolph 5y ago
    All Member States contribute to these programmes on a scale based on their Gross National Product (GNP). The other programmes, known as ‘optional’, are only of interest to some Member States, who are free to decide on their level of involvement. https://www.esa.int/About_Us/Corporate_news/Funding https://www.esa.int/About_Us/Corporate_news/Funding
  - dotancohen 5y ago
    Good thing that Giuseppe Colombo wasn't a politician!
- bregma 5y ago
  They could probably get more funding if they reduced the amount of science the probes do so they could insert sell and insert advertizing into the data stream.
guntars 5y ago
Yet there's a fantastic PR and public value. The resolution is also only 1024x1024.
- pengaru 5y ago
  I'm more forgiving on the resolution front, my assumption is space isn't the greatest place for a very high density sensor. Historically it's been discouraged to bring digital cameras on planes without shielding since the sensors get damaged cells. But why they're not just sticking an array of sensors everywhere they've got the b&w sensor, with fixed color filters in front of them, escapes me. Even smartphones are starting to look like insect eyes with the number of lenses in front of dedicated sensors. You'd also get the advantage of some redundancy.
  - wumpus 5y ago
    How much money do you want them to spend to do it your way, instead of doing what's needed to maximize science?
    - guntars 5y ago
      You don't think this is worth the money, assuming no scientific value? https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/system/resources/detail_files/933_BIG_P_COLOR_2_TRUE_COLOR1_1980.jpg https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/system/resources/detail_files/9... Source: NASA/Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory/Southwest Research Institute/Alex Parker Published: July 23, 2018 This is the most accurate natural color images of Pluto taken by NASA's New Horizons spacecraft in 2015. These natural-color images result from refined calibration of data gathered by New Horizons' color Multispectral Visible Imaging Camera (MVIC). The processing creates images that would approximate the colors that the human eye would perceive, bringing them closer to “true color” than the images released near the encounter. This image was taken as New Horizons zipped toward Pluto and its moons on July 14, 2015, from a range of 22,025 miles (35,445) kilometers. This single color MVIC scan includes no data from other New Horizons imagers or instruments added. The striking features on Pluto are clearly visible, including the bright expanse of Pluto's icy, nitrogen-and-methane rich "heart," Sputnik Planitia. https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/resources/933/true-colors-of-pluto/ https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/resources/933/true-colors-of-pl...

SiempreViernes 5y ago

It's a navigation camera, not output from any main instrument so it doesn't come with a filter wheel. The importance factor is having very good linear response to incoming light, not making good phone backgrounds.

stiller 5y ago

The images were taken using the monitoring cameras: https://www.esa.int/ESA_Multimedia/Images/2018/10/BepiColombo_monitoring_cameras https://www.esa.int/ESA_Multimedia/Images/2018/10/BepiColomb... Images using primary instruments will follow when it reaches orbit in 2025.

m4rtink 5y ago

Does the surface of Mercury actually show any perceptible color or is it just basically grayscale like the Moon ?

ojosilva 5y ago
It's even greyer than the Moon apparently. Unless this mission finds an active volcano, which I doubt it will, or some other colorful feature hidden from the previous missions, I think that's pretty much it, nothing but shades of grey. https://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/targetFamily/Mercury https://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/targetFamily/Mercury
Tepix 5y ago
It has some subdued colours such as brown and light blue. Here's a previous NASA image: https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap110331.html https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap110331.html Here's an image with exaggerated colours: https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap110616.html https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap110616.html
xioxox 5y ago
BepiColombo has an X-ray telescope on board which will measure the X-ray colours of the planet from X-ray fluorescence. This will be interesting, as it will enable the composition of the surface to be measured down to 10 km scales [1]. [1] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11214-020-00750-2 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11214-020-00750-2
adrian_b 5y ago
The most abundant minerals in rocks in the solar system are white oxides, except for the iron(II) and manganese oxides, which are blackish. So most rocks are gray, unless they have been exposed to oxygen, which converts the black iron oxide into red iron oxide, in which case the rocks turn from some gray shade to some brown shade. Where there has been water, the water could have been dissociated by light, providing oxygen for the change of color. In the absence of water, there are few chances for anything else that could change the color of the rocks from gray.