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>If Urbit were reimagined in 2021, it would be running on Sia or Ethereum: your data is stored on the blockchain, your applications are running as perpetual sma

>If Urbit were reimagined in 2021, it would be running on Sia or Ethereum: your data is stored on the blockchain, your applications are running as perpetual smart contracts, and you can access it from anywhere in the world with just your private key. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what smart contracts do. Every miner runs every smart contract every time something is executed. It would be disastrously expensive to run a server on top of Ethereum. Urbit's network infrastructure was "reimagined" to use Ethereum for identification. >Hosting on my own hardware is annoying, hosting in the centralized cloud defeats the whole point. Is there actually a third option? I'm wondering of the author simply misunderstands Ethereum.

RealityVoid 5y ago
I _think_ there is a third option, hosting in IPFS. Regardless whom does what, I think that a autonomous decentralized website should be possible to be ran on crypto services.
- drfxyjhdyfrhgc 5y ago
  A server could use either service for storage (and sharing). You can't run Urbit's operating system on top of either, the part that executes code is missing.
slackstation 5y ago
Not on Solana. In fact, people are already writing software (metamask) that uses on chain computation, file storage with ipfs and even could support an blockchain controlled CDN for distribution (https://media.network/ https://media.network/). All with gas prices that literally fractions of a penny and 50k+ transactions per second.
- knownjorbist 5y ago
  The main problem here is that it's Solana, so in essence even more controlled than the wider internet
- regisg 5y ago
  At the cost of decentralization.
weare138 5y ago
>Is there actually a third option? I'm wondering of the author simply misunderstands Ethereum. The issue is Urbit bills itself as 'decentralized' but isn't. If you buy Ethereum and disconnect from the Ethereum network your Ethereum doesn't go away but with Urbit you're just running your own server. Urbit should just call it what it is, a software stack. It's not 'decentralized' or an 'OS'. It's a software stack that requires a conventional OS and server.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- bronzejaguar 5y ago
  I’m curious as to your definition of decentralized here. It seems you’re using the term to mean “global commons”, when I generally would use the term to mean something more akin to “permissionless” or “exhibiting a resistance to control via a singular entity or small group of entities”. Urbit is certainly decentralized by either of the two latter definitions, though a particular Urbit server surely wouldn’t constitute a global commons, which seems closest to your definition.
- drfxyjhdyfrhgc 5y ago
  "Just running your own server" is the proper meaning of "decentralized" [0]. Urbit has a literal operating system named Arvo built on top of a virtual machine named Nock. The terms are used technically; it's not trying to compete with Windows. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_computing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_computing
  - smorgusofborg 5y ago
    That article goes straight into peer-to-peer and file sharing so it is hardly surprising that most people expect a decentralized platform to exist primarily to eliminate SPOFs, i.e. provide redundant access to data of down peers.
- tlarkworthy 5y ago
  there is peer-to-peer decentralisation and federated decentralisation.
wmf 5y ago
Maybe Sia/Filecoin/etc is a better example; every node does not store a copy of every piece of data but the blockchain is used to coordinate storing a reasonable number of copies. You could imagine using a blockchain to coordinate computation in some kind of decentralized attack-resistant way although I've never seen this done and maybe it's not feasible.

RealityVoid 5y ago

I _think_ there is a third option, hosting in IPFS. Regardless whom does what, I think that a autonomous decentralized website should be possible to be ran on crypto services.

drfxyjhdyfrhgc 5y ago
A server could use either service for storage (and sharing). You can't run Urbit's operating system on top of either, the part that executes code is missing.

slackstation 5y ago

Not on Solana. In fact, people are already writing software (metamask) that uses on chain computation, file storage with ipfs and even could support an blockchain controlled CDN for distribution (https://media.network/ https://media.network/). All with gas prices that literally fractions of a penny and 50k+ transactions per second.

knownjorbist 5y ago
The main problem here is that it's Solana, so in essence even more controlled than the wider internet
regisg 5y ago
At the cost of decentralization.

weare138 5y ago

>Is there actually a third option? I'm wondering of the author simply misunderstands Ethereum. The issue is Urbit bills itself as 'decentralized' but isn't. If you buy Ethereum and disconnect from the Ethereum network your Ethereum doesn't go away but with Urbit you're just running your own server. Urbit should just call it what it is, a software stack. It's not 'decentralized' or an 'OS'. It's a software stack that requires a conventional OS and server.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
bronzejaguar 5y ago
I’m curious as to your definition of decentralized here. It seems you’re using the term to mean “global commons”, when I generally would use the term to mean something more akin to “permissionless” or “exhibiting a resistance to control via a singular entity or small group of entities”. Urbit is certainly decentralized by either of the two latter definitions, though a particular Urbit server surely wouldn’t constitute a global commons, which seems closest to your definition.
drfxyjhdyfrhgc 5y ago
"Just running your own server" is the proper meaning of "decentralized" [0]. Urbit has a literal operating system named Arvo built on top of a virtual machine named Nock. The terms are used technically; it's not trying to compete with Windows. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_computing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_computing
- smorgusofborg 5y ago
  That article goes straight into peer-to-peer and file sharing so it is hardly surprising that most people expect a decentralized platform to exist primarily to eliminate SPOFs, i.e. provide redundant access to data of down peers.
tlarkworthy 5y ago
there is peer-to-peer decentralisation and federated decentralisation.

wmf 5y ago

Maybe Sia/Filecoin/etc is a better example; every node does not store a copy of every piece of data but the blockchain is used to coordinate storing a reasonable number of copies. You could imagine using a blockchain to coordinate computation in some kind of decentralized attack-resistant way although I've never seen this done and maybe it's not feasible.