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They do actually ask before doing this. It's a question that you have to answer when you first updated to iOS 14 or that you answer when setting up a new iOS 15

They do actually ask before doing this. It's a question that you have to answer when you first updated to iOS 14 or that you answer when setting up a new iOS 15 device.

Shared404 5y ago
But they never asked the non-apple users whose information is being transmitted, unless there's something I missed.
- judge2020 5y ago
  https://www.wired.com/2012/05/google-wifi-fcc-investigation/ https://www.wired.com/2012/05/google-wifi-fcc-investigation/ They weren't fined whatsoever for the collection of the data. The fine was for stonewalling the investigation. > But, the commission said, Google did not engage in illegal wiretapping because the data was flowing, unencrypted, over open radio waves. At what point does reading unencrypted radio waves on open-use frequencies become an invasion of privacy? It'd be like a restaurant owner requiring people get permission before being able to write down the restaurant's name. If it's possible to passively read it for free, you can't control who views it.
  - Shared404 5y ago
    You appear to have intended to respond to this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28743092 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28743092 In any case, yes Apple may be within legality to record devices nearby broadcasting their location, but it feels scummy to me.
    - jbverschoor 5y ago
      Macs are randomized. So it’s only when you’re connected to the same network
      - Shared404 5y ago
        Mac meaning MAC Address? Those are definitely not randomized by default, even if operating systems tell them to act as if they are. And even then, why would that require being on the same network? I can see my wifi router's MAC without being connected to the network, ditto for your phones bluetooth. Edits because mobile.
        mynameisvlad 5y ago
        They are on IOS as of 14: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211227 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211227
        Shared404 5y ago
        Again, that's an OS feature. The hardware still has a set MAC, and the rest of the hardware whos addresses are being reported may or may not be randomized.
  - nitrogen 5y ago
    At what point does reading unencrypted radio waves on open-use frequencies become an invasion of privacy? If the transmitter is inside a house, and the unintended receiver is outside, that seems pretty clearly a violation of privacy.
  - foxfluff 5y ago
    The big difference between a restaurant's name and consumers' radio devices is that the restaurant's name was knowingly and deliberately placed up there by the owner, whereas consumers most likely don't understand the privacy implications of their radio devices and often don't know how to protect themselves and may not even have the option to do so (my washing machine has some kind of smartphone link support, and I don't remember seeing a documented way to disable it). And while the restaurant next door is a company that openly offers services to the public, the machine in my bathroom is not open to the public. They're putting radios everywhere and anywhere now, but I don't think consumers generally expect and want anyone to be able to hear their devices, let alone scoop up the data and store it in a database with gps coordinates. You might also ask at what point does reading of unencrypted audio frequency vibrations originating from a private home become an invasion of privacy? Most homes aren't perfectly soundproof, and it's not too hard to make devices that can listen in. Is it ok just because you can? Same for radio imaging, etc.

They do actually ask before doing this. It's a question that you have to answer when you first updated to iOS 14 or that you answer when setting up a new iOS 15 device.

Shared404 5y ago

But they never asked the non-apple users whose information is being transmitted, unless there's something I missed.

judge2020 5y ago
https://www.wired.com/2012/05/google-wifi-fcc-investigation/ https://www.wired.com/2012/05/google-wifi-fcc-investigation/ They weren't fined whatsoever for the collection of the data. The fine was for stonewalling the investigation. > But, the commission said, Google did not engage in illegal wiretapping because the data was flowing, unencrypted, over open radio waves. At what point does reading unencrypted radio waves on open-use frequencies become an invasion of privacy? It'd be like a restaurant owner requiring people get permission before being able to write down the restaurant's name. If it's possible to passively read it for free, you can't control who views it.
- Shared404 5y ago
  You appear to have intended to respond to this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28743092 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28743092 In any case, yes Apple may be within legality to record devices nearby broadcasting their location, but it feels scummy to me.
  - jbverschoor 5y ago
    Macs are randomized. So it’s only when you’re connected to the same network
    - Shared404 5y ago
      Mac meaning MAC Address? Those are definitely not randomized by default, even if operating systems tell them to act as if they are. And even then, why would that require being on the same network? I can see my wifi router's MAC without being connected to the network, ditto for your phones bluetooth. Edits because mobile.
      - mynameisvlad 5y ago
        They are on IOS as of 14: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211227 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211227
        Shared404 5y ago
        Again, that's an OS feature. The hardware still has a set MAC, and the rest of the hardware whos addresses are being reported may or may not be randomized.
- nitrogen 5y ago
  At what point does reading unencrypted radio waves on open-use frequencies become an invasion of privacy? If the transmitter is inside a house, and the unintended receiver is outside, that seems pretty clearly a violation of privacy.
- foxfluff 5y ago
  The big difference between a restaurant's name and consumers' radio devices is that the restaurant's name was knowingly and deliberately placed up there by the owner, whereas consumers most likely don't understand the privacy implications of their radio devices and often don't know how to protect themselves and may not even have the option to do so (my washing machine has some kind of smartphone link support, and I don't remember seeing a documented way to disable it). And while the restaurant next door is a company that openly offers services to the public, the machine in my bathroom is not open to the public. They're putting radios everywhere and anywhere now, but I don't think consumers generally expect and want anyone to be able to hear their devices, let alone scoop up the data and store it in a database with gps coordinates. You might also ask at what point does reading of unencrypted audio frequency vibrations originating from a private home become an invasion of privacy? Most homes aren't perfectly soundproof, and it's not too hard to make devices that can listen in. Is it ok just because you can? Same for radio imaging, etc.