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The problem is that "extremism" just means "content that my team doesn't like." Antifa calls for murdering AfD politicians, but that doesn't merit deplatformin

The problem is that "extremism" just means "content that my team doesn't like." Antifa calls for murdering AfD politicians, but that doesn't merit deplatforming? Please.

UIUC_06 5y ago
"Nothing to see here. Move along." Reaction of all the Antifa fanboys. "No, there's no Antifa! It's a myth." Can you say "disingenuous"? When you condone political violence by your side, you need to own it and stop being pedantic about how formal an organization it operates under.
s5300 5y ago
Sigh. The US and other world governments have still not recognized whatever "antifa" means to you as any form of organized domestic group. They have however recognized several far right groups as terrorist organizations, years ago. I realize this probably isn't something of concern to you, though.
- flavius29663 5y ago
  This comment is absolutely ridiculous. Someone posted "kill this politician" on twitter and they haven't been banned. You are here explaining how antifa doesn't exist, or if it does it's not a threat? But the Twitter account surely exists, why isn't it banned?
  - SamBam 5y ago
    I think s5300 was reacting to this: > Antifa calls for murdering AfD politicians. "Antifa" did no such thing.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - s5300 5y ago
    [dead]
- thewakalix 5y ago
  Are you claiming that you're only allowed to deplatform people if they're part of an organized terrorist group (rather than, e.g., based on what they say)?
- ehvatum 5y ago
  It is, in fact, concerning when laws are selectively enforced.
- whatshisface 5y ago
  What does recognition as an organized domestic group mean?
- iammisc 5y ago
  Rose city antifa in Portland has a website where they routinely harass people. Pray tell how disorganized people set up a hosting server, domain, and website?
  - klodolph 5y ago
    "Somebody set up a website" is a pretty low bar, especially considering the number of tech workers in Portland. A lot of people get this wrong. "Antifa" is not a distinct organization but a label used both by individuals and organizations which are often unconnected. I see people on Twitter who just add "antifa" to their screen name. It doesn't mean that they've joined some organization. I'm guessing the RCA is a little bit more organized because neo-Nazi activity in Portland is a bit more organized and active. People who have never lived in Portland often think of the city as some kind of liberal haven, through the lens of Portlandia. The lived experience is quite different. Maybe think of it as San Francisco, with all the homelessness, but not as much tech. Then add a history of neo-Nazi violence, anti-government factions like ones behind the Malheur standoff, the Rajneeshpuram, etc. There's a reason why "Green Room" is set in Oregon.
    - iammisc 5y ago
      As a brown man in Portland, I've never experienced these supposed neo Nazis. I have experienced being harassed by homeless African American men over being a non white married to a white woman though. Whatever though, my white overlords know more about racism than me and always have so I guess I'll just defer to their interpretation of my life...
      - klodolph 5y ago
        How long have you lived in Portland? The neo-nazis keep changing. If you lived in Portland in the 1990s you might have seen the Volksfront. If you go back another decade to the 1980s, you'd see skinheads, or read about them in the news. If you went to punk shows in Portland in the 1980s, you'd definitely know about neo-nazis. For some reason, this was poorly documented, and mostly forgotten. Neo-nazis don't live in Portland, for the most part, these days. They come in to stage protests. The symbology changes. You won't see many swastikas. Instead, there's a symbol of interlocking triangles, there's a couple norse runes, etc. There's usually some kind of plausible deniability that someone is a neo-nazi. It takes some level of research to learn how neo-nazis recognize each other, and it can sometimes be hard to tell if someone is wearing a symbol because they bought it unaware from a neo-nazi and thought it looked cool, or if they're wearing a symbol because they're a neo-nazi. I'm not denying your experience of living in Portland, but neither should you deny me my experience of living in Portland.
- BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago
  Let’s apply the Eddy Izzard test: “Do they have a flag?” (They certainly do!) But quite frankly, all the reasons given that attempt to justify the non-existence of “antifa” just don’t add up. At best they are attempts at legal loophole style thinking. (They haven’t been recognized by a world government yet. Or, they aren’t incorporated and have no President. Someone who claimed to be “antifa” did something, and that’s not an official position so it doesn't apply. And more…) At worst, it’s a very underhanded attempt to deny the existence of something that makes the left look bad by association. And, the solution isn’t to disavow them or their tactics, it’s to literally deny their existence.
sandworm101 5y ago
But there are working definitions of extremists. I'm a fan of those that classify people with unbounded beliefs, or whose beliefs are not sustainable in the long term. Someone who believes that all sex is evil would be an extremists as that doesn't really work in the long term. Denying current climate change is not extremists, but believing that climate change is impossible would be. Someone who opposes a particular tax: not extremist. Someone who believes that all taxes everywhere should be opposed: extremist. Someone who thinks a president is a jerk and should apologies for something: not extremist. Someone who believes the president is a lizard and will never accept any apology: extremist.
matheusmoreira 5y ago
> Antifa calls for murdering AfD politicians, but that doesn't merit deplatforming? Please. Yeah. Somehow these extremists are protected from consequences while others are perfectly acceptable targets for online lynch mobs. I remember keeping tabs on some drama I witnessed on GitHub years ago. Some developer posted wrongthink on Twitter and people wanted him removed from the project because of it. People who tweeted things like "kill all men" with a straight face. And they laugh at you when you point it out and denounce them for it. They know nothing's gonna happen to them.

The problem is that "extremism" just means "content that my team doesn't like." Antifa calls for murdering AfD politicians, but that doesn't merit deplatforming? Please.

UIUC_06 5y ago

"Nothing to see here. Move along." Reaction of all the Antifa fanboys. "No, there's no Antifa! It's a myth." Can you say "disingenuous"? When you condone political violence by your side, you need to own it and stop being pedantic about how formal an organization it operates under.

s5300 5y ago

Sigh. The US and other world governments have still not recognized whatever "antifa" means to you as any form of organized domestic group. They have however recognized several far right groups as terrorist organizations, years ago. I realize this probably isn't something of concern to you, though.

flavius29663 5y ago
This comment is absolutely ridiculous. Someone posted "kill this politician" on twitter and they haven't been banned. You are here explaining how antifa doesn't exist, or if it does it's not a threat? But the Twitter account surely exists, why isn't it banned?
- SamBam 5y ago
  I think s5300 was reacting to this: > Antifa calls for murdering AfD politicians. "Antifa" did no such thing.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- s5300 5y ago
  [dead]
thewakalix 5y ago
Are you claiming that you're only allowed to deplatform people if they're part of an organized terrorist group (rather than, e.g., based on what they say)?
ehvatum 5y ago
It is, in fact, concerning when laws are selectively enforced.
whatshisface 5y ago
What does recognition as an organized domestic group mean?
iammisc 5y ago
Rose city antifa in Portland has a website where they routinely harass people. Pray tell how disorganized people set up a hosting server, domain, and website?
- klodolph 5y ago
  "Somebody set up a website" is a pretty low bar, especially considering the number of tech workers in Portland. A lot of people get this wrong. "Antifa" is not a distinct organization but a label used both by individuals and organizations which are often unconnected. I see people on Twitter who just add "antifa" to their screen name. It doesn't mean that they've joined some organization. I'm guessing the RCA is a little bit more organized because neo-Nazi activity in Portland is a bit more organized and active. People who have never lived in Portland often think of the city as some kind of liberal haven, through the lens of Portlandia. The lived experience is quite different. Maybe think of it as San Francisco, with all the homelessness, but not as much tech. Then add a history of neo-Nazi violence, anti-government factions like ones behind the Malheur standoff, the Rajneeshpuram, etc. There's a reason why "Green Room" is set in Oregon.
  - iammisc 5y ago
    As a brown man in Portland, I've never experienced these supposed neo Nazis. I have experienced being harassed by homeless African American men over being a non white married to a white woman though. Whatever though, my white overlords know more about racism than me and always have so I guess I'll just defer to their interpretation of my life...
    - klodolph 5y ago
      How long have you lived in Portland? The neo-nazis keep changing. If you lived in Portland in the 1990s you might have seen the Volksfront. If you go back another decade to the 1980s, you'd see skinheads, or read about them in the news. If you went to punk shows in Portland in the 1980s, you'd definitely know about neo-nazis. For some reason, this was poorly documented, and mostly forgotten. Neo-nazis don't live in Portland, for the most part, these days. They come in to stage protests. The symbology changes. You won't see many swastikas. Instead, there's a symbol of interlocking triangles, there's a couple norse runes, etc. There's usually some kind of plausible deniability that someone is a neo-nazi. It takes some level of research to learn how neo-nazis recognize each other, and it can sometimes be hard to tell if someone is wearing a symbol because they bought it unaware from a neo-nazi and thought it looked cool, or if they're wearing a symbol because they're a neo-nazi. I'm not denying your experience of living in Portland, but neither should you deny me my experience of living in Portland.
BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago
Let’s apply the Eddy Izzard test: “Do they have a flag?” (They certainly do!) But quite frankly, all the reasons given that attempt to justify the non-existence of “antifa” just don’t add up. At best they are attempts at legal loophole style thinking. (They haven’t been recognized by a world government yet. Or, they aren’t incorporated and have no President. Someone who claimed to be “antifa” did something, and that’s not an official position so it doesn't apply. And more…) At worst, it’s a very underhanded attempt to deny the existence of something that makes the left look bad by association. And, the solution isn’t to disavow them or their tactics, it’s to literally deny their existence.

sandworm101 5y ago

But there are working definitions of extremists. I'm a fan of those that classify people with unbounded beliefs, or whose beliefs are not sustainable in the long term. Someone who believes that all sex is evil would be an extremists as that doesn't really work in the long term. Denying current climate change is not extremists, but believing that climate change is impossible would be. Someone who opposes a particular tax: not extremist. Someone who believes that all taxes everywhere should be opposed: extremist. Someone who thinks a president is a jerk and should apologies for something: not extremist. Someone who believes the president is a lizard and will never accept any apology: extremist.

matheusmoreira 5y ago

> Antifa calls for murdering AfD politicians, but that doesn't merit deplatforming? Please. Yeah. Somehow these extremists are protected from consequences while others are perfectly acceptable targets for online lynch mobs. I remember keeping tabs on some drama I witnessed on GitHub years ago. Some developer posted wrongthink on Twitter and people wanted him removed from the project because of it. People who tweeted things like "kill all men" with a straight face. And they laugh at you when you point it out and denounce them for it. They know nothing's gonna happen to them.