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Do you not care about people attacking your biggest symbol of power. Within in reach of many of your representatives. Driven by years of hate and misinformation

Do you not care about people attacking your biggest symbol of power. Within in reach of many of your representatives. Driven by years of hate and misinformation? You should care. Russian interference is well documented by American intelligence agencies and private individuals.

nyolfen 5y ago
curious if you recall this https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/aerial-view-shows-fire-and-protests-near-white-house/2318884/ https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/aerial-view-shows-f...
cybernautique 5y ago
I think Jan 6 was a problem in its origin, not in its means or ends. As an American, I truly do not care about people attacking Congress, or the White House, or any politician, because they are not symbols of my power anymore than my local carwash or plumber is a symbol of my power. They are public servants, worthy of no more respect than the pizza delivery person (a lot less, actually, since the pizza delivery person is working to make a living). If they were attempting to overthrow actual despots, about whom everyone agreed something Must Be Done, the popular reaction would be much different. I think the current reaction is on the money: they are violent, idiotic, hooligans. But the ability to storm the capitol is a necessity.
kcplate 5y ago
Perhaps I am of the minority opinion, but I damn sure was never worried about a bunch of selfie-taking unarmed rednecks destroying the United States of America. My faith in this country goes a little deeper than that.
- rocketpastsix 5y ago
  I wonder if your opinion would be different if those unarmed rednecks were able to get to Speaker Pelosi, Leader Schumer, Minority Leader McConnell or VP Pence? Those "unarmed rednecks" were able to do something not even the various armies of the Confederacy couldn't: get inside the capitol. People are not terrified enough, because this group of people saw they could do it and I have a strong feeling they will try again.
  - sk2020 5y ago
    Are you suggesting this country is better off with Nancy Pelosi or Mitch McConnel in it? Think about what you’re saying.
  - cavisne 5y ago
    The capitol is (normally) a public building. There is a sitting senator who has been arrested at a protest in the building. Likewise it was not long ago that the capitol was full of protesters accosting senators in the lead up the the supreme court pick. It's not meant to be a secure building that takes an army to get into.
  - vimy 5y ago
    I watched the live stream. The capitol police opened the barriers in front of the building to let them pass. They seemed friendly towards the protestors.
    - rocketpastsix 5y ago
      I agree, which should also be terrifying.
  - iammisc 5y ago
    The capitol police opened the doors. Nancy pelosi was offered help by the executive branch to help keep the protestors at bay. She refused.
    - rocketpastsix 5y ago
      uh... Nancy Pelosi has limited control with the Capitol Police. She can't call in the national guard, or DC police.
  - Grieving 5y ago
    Susan Rosenberg was part of a group of former Weather Underground members that bombed the U.S. capitol in 1983. She was pardoned by Clinton and became involved with the company bankrolling the largest BLM organization in the world. In what way is a group of proles walking around, taking selfies, and breaking some glass comparable?
- ethanbond 5y ago
  People are much less concerned about the unarmed rednecks taking selfies than they’re concerned about the armed folks searching the grounds for certain representatives, the people planting pipe bombs around DC, and anti-government militias comprised heavily of former military and law enforcement. Oh yeah, said militia members stashed guns at a nearby hotel (according to their own testimony and video footage). This could’ve gotten way uglier and who knows what the ramifications would be. Let’s not fixate on the selfies.
  - Grieving 5y ago
    You're talking about a small group of Oath Keepers in an otherwise peaceful protest. But I'm curious, why do you think Stewart Rhodes was never arrested? Would it make more sense given the context that the boogaloos behind the Whitmer kidnapping plot turned out to be FBI agents, as did the leaders of other right-wing groups including the Proud Boys and Atomwaffen Division? Who does the right-wing terrorism scare serve?
    - llamaimperative 5y ago
      Right-wing terrorism scare? We all watched angry mobs attempt to disrupt the peaceful transition of power on live TV. These are the same people who proudly fly the flag of literal traitors to our country and call the press the “enemy of the free state.” If all it takes for your movement to attempt to kidnap elected officials or disrupt transfer of power is a few undercover agents nudging along, your movement is a huge problem.
      - Grieving 5y ago
        We all watched protesters demonstrate in a public building, and yes, disrupt the transition of power. Peaceful disruption of the government is the quintessential act of protest. >call the press the “enemy of the free state.” Criticism of media is terrorism? >kidnap elected officials That group was comprised almost entirely of undercover agents along with a couple of mentally ill people. The FBI orchestrated the entire thing. >disrupt transfer of power Again, a valid target for protest.
- darkerside 5y ago
  Marie Antoinette was similarly not worried about the visceral expressions of very real problems across the nation of France. It's not a problem until it's a problem.
  - bopbeepboop 5y ago
    Right — but we’re collectively okay with violent rioting, including arson and murder… but draw the line at selfies. This seems more Reichstag Fire than French Revolution.
  - kcplate 5y ago
    So overthrowing the French monarchy was a mistake? That’s a pretty ironic metaphor you got there…
    - darkerside 5y ago
      No, being overthrown by the populace was a mistake from the perspective of the French monarchy. You might want to stop looking at the world as black and white at some point.
- cratermoon 5y ago
  Unarmed? https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2021/09/trump-extremists-guns-january-6-insurrection-congress-domestic-terrorism/ https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2021/09/trump-extr...
- iammisc 5y ago
  My goodness they were old ladies with walkers... This is so stupid as to be comical.
sk2020 5y ago
Some people forcibly entered the Capitol to protest during Justice Kavanaugh’s nomination. A few people got arrested. Life went on. Personally, I think the mortal fear politically active leftists have of any sign of opposition, no matter how trivial, speaks volumes about how they feel about their own position.
iammisc 5y ago
No I think people should in fact focus their rioting towards politicians. That's much better than harassing or committing violence against your fellow citizens because of something your government did. For example if your government is oppressing you and your response is to burn your fellow citizens car dealership or vandalize their shop, that is less Noble then going after your government officials. I disagree with the Jan 6 rioters but they correctly targeted their efforts . On the other hand, blm Chicago called for looting private businesses, many of whom had even come out in support of their cause. BLM riots were drien by just as much misinformation. Studies show that progressives are way more likely to overestimate the number of minorities killed by police. A good portion of them believed tens of thousands were being killed a year. This number is way off. Conservatives were most likely to accurately estimate, although even they were skewed towards overestimating. And the Russia collusion narrative is a hoax. While Russia certainly has an interest in interfering with us, the claim was that trumps campaign directly aided them. That is false. It is provably false. Stop changing the goal posts. You yourself are spreading misinformation. Edit: and for the record, the federal government of the USA derives legitimacy from the people not buildings

nyolfen 5y ago

curious if you recall this https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/aerial-view-shows-fire-and-protests-near-white-house/2318884/ https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/aerial-view-shows-f...

cybernautique 5y ago

I think Jan 6 was a problem in its origin, not in its means or ends. As an American, I truly do not care about people attacking Congress, or the White House, or any politician, because they are not symbols of my power anymore than my local carwash or plumber is a symbol of my power. They are public servants, worthy of no more respect than the pizza delivery person (a lot less, actually, since the pizza delivery person is working to make a living). If they were attempting to overthrow actual despots, about whom everyone agreed something Must Be Done, the popular reaction would be much different. I think the current reaction is on the money: they are violent, idiotic, hooligans. But the ability to storm the capitol is a necessity.

kcplate 5y ago

Perhaps I am of the minority opinion, but I damn sure was never worried about a bunch of selfie-taking unarmed rednecks destroying the United States of America. My faith in this country goes a little deeper than that.

rocketpastsix 5y ago
I wonder if your opinion would be different if those unarmed rednecks were able to get to Speaker Pelosi, Leader Schumer, Minority Leader McConnell or VP Pence? Those "unarmed rednecks" were able to do something not even the various armies of the Confederacy couldn't: get inside the capitol. People are not terrified enough, because this group of people saw they could do it and I have a strong feeling they will try again.
- sk2020 5y ago
  Are you suggesting this country is better off with Nancy Pelosi or Mitch McConnel in it? Think about what you’re saying.
- cavisne 5y ago
  The capitol is (normally) a public building. There is a sitting senator who has been arrested at a protest in the building. Likewise it was not long ago that the capitol was full of protesters accosting senators in the lead up the the supreme court pick. It's not meant to be a secure building that takes an army to get into.
- vimy 5y ago
  I watched the live stream. The capitol police opened the barriers in front of the building to let them pass. They seemed friendly towards the protestors.
  - rocketpastsix 5y ago
    I agree, which should also be terrifying.
- iammisc 5y ago
  The capitol police opened the doors. Nancy pelosi was offered help by the executive branch to help keep the protestors at bay. She refused.
  - rocketpastsix 5y ago
    uh... Nancy Pelosi has limited control with the Capitol Police. She can't call in the national guard, or DC police.
- Grieving 5y ago
  Susan Rosenberg was part of a group of former Weather Underground members that bombed the U.S. capitol in 1983. She was pardoned by Clinton and became involved with the company bankrolling the largest BLM organization in the world. In what way is a group of proles walking around, taking selfies, and breaking some glass comparable?
ethanbond 5y ago
People are much less concerned about the unarmed rednecks taking selfies than they’re concerned about the armed folks searching the grounds for certain representatives, the people planting pipe bombs around DC, and anti-government militias comprised heavily of former military and law enforcement. Oh yeah, said militia members stashed guns at a nearby hotel (according to their own testimony and video footage). This could’ve gotten way uglier and who knows what the ramifications would be. Let’s not fixate on the selfies.
- Grieving 5y ago
  You're talking about a small group of Oath Keepers in an otherwise peaceful protest. But I'm curious, why do you think Stewart Rhodes was never arrested? Would it make more sense given the context that the boogaloos behind the Whitmer kidnapping plot turned out to be FBI agents, as did the leaders of other right-wing groups including the Proud Boys and Atomwaffen Division? Who does the right-wing terrorism scare serve?
  - llamaimperative 5y ago
    Right-wing terrorism scare? We all watched angry mobs attempt to disrupt the peaceful transition of power on live TV. These are the same people who proudly fly the flag of literal traitors to our country and call the press the “enemy of the free state.” If all it takes for your movement to attempt to kidnap elected officials or disrupt transfer of power is a few undercover agents nudging along, your movement is a huge problem.
    - Grieving 5y ago
      We all watched protesters demonstrate in a public building, and yes, disrupt the transition of power. Peaceful disruption of the government is the quintessential act of protest. >call the press the “enemy of the free state.” Criticism of media is terrorism? >kidnap elected officials That group was comprised almost entirely of undercover agents along with a couple of mentally ill people. The FBI orchestrated the entire thing. >disrupt transfer of power Again, a valid target for protest.
darkerside 5y ago
Marie Antoinette was similarly not worried about the visceral expressions of very real problems across the nation of France. It's not a problem until it's a problem.
- bopbeepboop 5y ago
  Right — but we’re collectively okay with violent rioting, including arson and murder… but draw the line at selfies. This seems more Reichstag Fire than French Revolution.
- kcplate 5y ago
  So overthrowing the French monarchy was a mistake? That’s a pretty ironic metaphor you got there…
  - darkerside 5y ago
    No, being overthrown by the populace was a mistake from the perspective of the French monarchy. You might want to stop looking at the world as black and white at some point.
cratermoon 5y ago
Unarmed? https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2021/09/trump-extremists-guns-january-6-insurrection-congress-domestic-terrorism/ https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2021/09/trump-extr...
iammisc 5y ago
My goodness they were old ladies with walkers... This is so stupid as to be comical.

sk2020 5y ago

Some people forcibly entered the Capitol to protest during Justice Kavanaugh’s nomination. A few people got arrested. Life went on. Personally, I think the mortal fear politically active leftists have of any sign of opposition, no matter how trivial, speaks volumes about how they feel about their own position.

iammisc 5y ago

No I think people should in fact focus their rioting towards politicians. That's much better than harassing or committing violence against your fellow citizens because of something your government did. For example if your government is oppressing you and your response is to burn your fellow citizens car dealership or vandalize their shop, that is less Noble then going after your government officials. I disagree with the Jan 6 rioters but they correctly targeted their efforts . On the other hand, blm Chicago called for looting private businesses, many of whom had even come out in support of their cause. BLM riots were drien by just as much misinformation. Studies show that progressives are way more likely to overestimate the number of minorities killed by police. A good portion of them believed tens of thousands were being killed a year. This number is way off. Conservatives were most likely to accurately estimate, although even they were skewed towards overestimating. And the Russia collusion narrative is a hoax. While Russia certainly has an interest in interfering with us, the claim was that trumps campaign directly aided them. That is false. It is provably false. Stop changing the goal posts. You yourself are spreading misinformation. Edit: and for the record, the federal government of the USA derives legitimacy from the people not buildings