5 ms·

This individual is not a 'whistleblower'. Nothing revealed is illegal or fraudulent.

ineedasername 5y ago
It doesn't have to be illegal or fraudulent to reveal bad things about the company that the company doesn't allow its employees to reveal. Looking up various definitions of the term, the activity reported on doesn't necessarily have to be illegal. Though I acknowledge that in many cases the activity involved is illegal.
stevetodd 5y ago
> Scott Pelley: What is the legal theory behind going to the SEC? What laws are you alleging have been broken? > John Tye: As a publicly-traded company, Facebook is required to not lie to its investors or even withhold material information. So, the SEC regularly brings enforcement actions, alleging that companies like Facebook and others are making material misstatements and omissions that affect investors adversely.
- propergentle44 5y ago
  How would any of this information affect investors adversely? What she revealed is that they actually are doing what is in the best interest of the shareholders. The users are not the investors. She just revealed what we all already know and what FB has known all along…that high engagement doesn’t mean the content is worth sharing at scale in all cases, and deciding whether that line is, is often very difficult and technology/rules need to catch up to solve that problem.
wesleywt 5y ago
"Misleading" does not need to be illegal or fraudulent.
runarberg 5y ago
Are there no consumer protection laws which forbids a company from pushing a product to market that they know to be harmful to their customers? IANAL but it seems pretty illegal to my eyes.
- arthurcolle 5y ago
  I hate Facebook, but your statement begs the question: "who defines what is harmful"
  - cottsak 5y ago
    I think we should agree that women and girls physically harming themselves is "harmful". > Frances Haugen: And what's super tragic is Facebook's own research says, as these young women begin to consume this-- this eating disorder content, they get more and more depressed. And it actually makes them use the app more. And so, they end up in this feedback cycle where they hate their bodies more and more. Facebook's own research says it is not just the Instagram is dangerous for teenagers, that it harms teenagers, it's that it is distinctly worse than other forms of social media. I just started listening to this https://www.audible.com.au/pd/More-Than-a-Body-Audiobook/035839385X https://www.audible.com.au/pd/More-Than-a-Body-Audiobook/035... which shows directly through research how this kind of depression leads to physical self harm. Now I'm questioning why I even want to have an Instagram account.
    - jensensbutton 5y ago
      If you don't enjoy it, then you shouldn't. Otherwise enjoy.
    - _3u10 5y ago
      It's like a motorcycle for dudes. The faster you go, the more you like it, the more likely you are to die. Do I think motorcycles are harmful? No.
      - coliveira 5y ago
        It is very clear to any motorcycle user the risks associated with high speed. Not so to FB users.
  - seoaeu 5y ago
    The "who defines" question isn't really much of a gotcha for laws. Either the legislature specifies when the pass the law, or courts get to decide when a case comes before them. Sometimes a jury is also involved.
theptip 5y ago
To quote Matt Levine, “everything is securities fraud”. If FB is representing to the public that they are doing better than they actually are on fighting these issues, and the truth damages their share price, then they have committed securities fraud and will be sued by shareholders.
- sasaf5 5y ago
  and what is not securities fraud is wire fraud.
riazrizvi 5y ago
The claim lodged with the SEC is that Facebook Inc defrauded investors. Dodd Frank set up a whistleblower program for allegations of this kind.
- curiousgal 5y ago
  I mean nothing gets corporations spooked like the SEC does! How could Facebook ever afford to pay those fines!
  - riazrizvi 5y ago
    I do like a healthy slice of sarcasm.
  - ramraj07 5y ago
    Does it matter? The person and their lawyers found an angle through which the person cannot potentially be held liable for these actions.
robbrown451 5y ago
No but what Facebook is doing is harmful, and what she is doing is embarrassing to the company and to those who work for them. For all I know, what she did is illegal. But I'm glad she did it, it was very brave and she puts herself at a lot of risk by doing it. If Facebook goes after her, they will undoubtedly get bad press and encourage government regulation and possibly even antitrust action. Facebook and other social media aren't inherently bad, but the incentives are certainly there for them to amplify the worst of human nature. This is most likely a problem that needs people outside of Facebook (and all these other companies) to solve. I am 100% in agreement with her that it is a solvable problem.
- farmerstan 5y ago
  You didn’t read the article. By law, she is allowed to whistleblow and share internal documents.
  - robbrown451 5y ago
    I did read it. The law says she is allowed to share documents with the SEC. I don't know if she is allowed to go beyond that, such as doing this interview. And I certainly don't know all the requirements for it falling under that law. Regardless, my whole point is that what she is doing is a positive and I salute her for it. Also, just saw this (which says what I was saying, that going to the press can put her at legal peril): https://www.npr.org/2021/09/30/1042012393/facebook-whistleblower-retaliation https://www.npr.org/2021/09/30/1042012393/facebook-whistlebl...
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

It doesn't have to be illegal or fraudulent to reveal bad things about the company that the company doesn't allow its employees to reveal. Looking up various definitions of the term, the activity reported on doesn't necessarily have to be illegal. Though I acknowledge that in many cases the activity involved is illegal.

stevetodd 5y ago

> Scott Pelley: What is the legal theory behind going to the SEC? What laws are you alleging have been broken? > John Tye: As a publicly-traded company, Facebook is required to not lie to its investors or even withhold material information. So, the SEC regularly brings enforcement actions, alleging that companies like Facebook and others are making material misstatements and omissions that affect investors adversely.

propergentle44 5y ago
How would any of this information affect investors adversely? What she revealed is that they actually are doing what is in the best interest of the shareholders. The users are not the investors. She just revealed what we all already know and what FB has known all along…that high engagement doesn’t mean the content is worth sharing at scale in all cases, and deciding whether that line is, is often very difficult and technology/rules need to catch up to solve that problem.

wesleywt 5y ago

"Misleading" does not need to be illegal or fraudulent.

runarberg 5y ago

Are there no consumer protection laws which forbids a company from pushing a product to market that they know to be harmful to their customers? IANAL but it seems pretty illegal to my eyes.

arthurcolle 5y ago
I hate Facebook, but your statement begs the question: "who defines what is harmful"
- cottsak 5y ago
  I think we should agree that women and girls physically harming themselves is "harmful". > Frances Haugen: And what's super tragic is Facebook's own research says, as these young women begin to consume this-- this eating disorder content, they get more and more depressed. And it actually makes them use the app more. And so, they end up in this feedback cycle where they hate their bodies more and more. Facebook's own research says it is not just the Instagram is dangerous for teenagers, that it harms teenagers, it's that it is distinctly worse than other forms of social media. I just started listening to this https://www.audible.com.au/pd/More-Than-a-Body-Audiobook/035839385X https://www.audible.com.au/pd/More-Than-a-Body-Audiobook/035... which shows directly through research how this kind of depression leads to physical self harm. Now I'm questioning why I even want to have an Instagram account.
  - jensensbutton 5y ago
    If you don't enjoy it, then you shouldn't. Otherwise enjoy.
  - _3u10 5y ago
    It's like a motorcycle for dudes. The faster you go, the more you like it, the more likely you are to die. Do I think motorcycles are harmful? No.
    - coliveira 5y ago
      It is very clear to any motorcycle user the risks associated with high speed. Not so to FB users.
- seoaeu 5y ago
  The "who defines" question isn't really much of a gotcha for laws. Either the legislature specifies when the pass the law, or courts get to decide when a case comes before them. Sometimes a jury is also involved.

theptip 5y ago

To quote Matt Levine, “everything is securities fraud”. If FB is representing to the public that they are doing better than they actually are on fighting these issues, and the truth damages their share price, then they have committed securities fraud and will be sued by shareholders.

sasaf5 5y ago
and what is not securities fraud is wire fraud.

riazrizvi 5y ago

The claim lodged with the SEC is that Facebook Inc defrauded investors. Dodd Frank set up a whistleblower program for allegations of this kind.

curiousgal 5y ago
I mean nothing gets corporations spooked like the SEC does! How could Facebook ever afford to pay those fines!
- riazrizvi 5y ago
  I do like a healthy slice of sarcasm.
- ramraj07 5y ago
  Does it matter? The person and their lawyers found an angle through which the person cannot potentially be held liable for these actions.

robbrown451 5y ago

No but what Facebook is doing is harmful, and what she is doing is embarrassing to the company and to those who work for them. For all I know, what she did is illegal. But I'm glad she did it, it was very brave and she puts herself at a lot of risk by doing it. If Facebook goes after her, they will undoubtedly get bad press and encourage government regulation and possibly even antitrust action. Facebook and other social media aren't inherently bad, but the incentives are certainly there for them to amplify the worst of human nature. This is most likely a problem that needs people outside of Facebook (and all these other companies) to solve. I am 100% in agreement with her that it is a solvable problem.

farmerstan 5y ago
You didn’t read the article. By law, she is allowed to whistleblow and share internal documents.
- robbrown451 5y ago
  I did read it. The law says she is allowed to share documents with the SEC. I don't know if she is allowed to go beyond that, such as doing this interview. And I certainly don't know all the requirements for it falling under that law. Regardless, my whole point is that what she is doing is a positive and I salute her for it. Also, just saw this (which says what I was saying, that going to the press can put her at legal peril): https://www.npr.org/2021/09/30/1042012393/facebook-whistleblower-retaliation https://www.npr.org/2021/09/30/1042012393/facebook-whistlebl...

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]