5 ms·

How private do people actually think it is? It's a completely opaque system, 0% privacy should be assumed by default.

by k4c9x 5y ago

triska 5y ago
Quoting from https://www.apple.com/privacy/ https://www.apple.com/privacy/ : "Privacy is a fundamental human right. At Apple, it’s also one of our core values. Your devices are important to so many parts of your life. What you share from those experiences, and who you share it with, should be up to you. We design Apple products to protect your privacy and give you control over your information. It’s not always easy. But that’s the kind of innovation we believe in." So, according to Apple, it is designed "to protect your privacy and give you control over your information".
- pixelgeek 5y ago
  Until the Chinese government asks them not to
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    Or the US government asks them not to. Apple gives up US customers' data for about 150,000 users/accounts a year[1]. [1] https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html
    - ekianjo 5y ago
      In China this is probably a day's worth.
      - FpUser 5y ago
        So you swallow any BS in your own country and feel good just because it is worse in China? That's some really high bar you've got.
  - caeril 5y ago
    s/Chinese/any government representing a material amount of their revenue/ Don't be deceived; the San Bernardino case was a very intentionally public op to convince us that they will "fight" for our right to privacy, but the not-so-public track record since has demonstrated their absolute willingness to lick the boots of virtually every government whose citizens impact their top line materially. This isn't a slag on Apple, specifically. Facebook, Google, et al will declaim "Russian Propaganda" all day long and then immediately roll over for Russian demands to censor political opposition, for instance. They all do it. It's all a show. You have no privacy with any of Big Tech, regardless of where you live.
    - redprince 5y ago
      > but the not-so-public track record since has demonstrated their absolute willingness to lick the boots of virtually every government whose citizens impact their top line materially. Is there any public information that supports this claim?
      - smoldesu 5y ago
        https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/ https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/ See for yourself.
        redprince 5y ago
        They comply with the law to the extend that they can. Apple by design locked themselves out of the capability to provide people's data in many circumstances. So the fact that requests exist says very little about what was actually provided.
    - dwaite 5y ago
      > but the not-so-public track record since has demonstrated their absolute willingness to lick the boots of virtually every government whose citizens impact their top line materially. What sort of percentage of the entries on that unprinted list can be summarized as "they follow the law in the places where they do business?"
  - judge2020 5y ago
    For as long as a company doesn't think selling in a country risks losing more money than they make by selling there, they will be beholden to the requests of that country. You have to see Apple as its own nation state, as this is how it works everywhere - leaders will weigh the economic damage of losing trade with evil countries with the damage caused to their reputation/re-election chances by not doing anything about it.
- shkkmo 5y ago
  Isn't it worse to lie to you about your level of privacy than to be upfront about the data you collect?
- sneak 5y ago
  This is a lie. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusive-idUSKBN1ZK1CT https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusiv... https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/21/21075033/apple-icloud-end-to-end-encryption-scrapped-fbi-reuters-report https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/21/21075033/apple-icloud-end... The iPhone uploads very nearly the entire contents of the device every night by default to Apple, in a format Apple can easily read.
  - ViViDboarder 5y ago
    Mine doesn’t. It’s ostensibly expected that a backup is going to send your data somewhere. I don’t use iCloud backups for that reason. Also, some iCloud backup data is e2ee. The document it here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
    - heavyset_go 5y ago
      > Also, some iCloud backup data is e2ee. The document it here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 Some of it is "E2EE", but Apple holds the keys that can decrypt that data.
      - katbyte 5y ago
        Read the link, not all of it can be: Data types that are protected by end-to-end encryption—such as your Keychain, Messages, Screen Time, and Health data—are not accessible via iCloud Data Recovery Service. Your device passcodes, which only you know, are required to decrypt and access them. Only you can access this information, and only on devices where you're signed in to iCloud.
  - LeoPanthera 5y ago
    > by default No, not by default. That would be impossible, since iCloud Backup first requires an iCloud Account, and then requires enough iCloud storage space to backup your phone. You get 5GB for free, which is not enough for a lot of people.
  - 5y ago
stonewareslord 5y ago
> It's a completely opaque system, 0% privacy should be assumed by default. I really dislike this framing and I could not disagree more. Android is open source does that mean it is also zero percent privacy? What about the Anom phone in recent news? If all three are zero percent privacy then would they not be equally private? iPhone is more private than Android as there's much less data exfiltration and the Anom phone is clearly less private than both. I love open source, but saying any closed source system is zero percent private is not helpful.

How private do people actually think it is? It's a completely opaque system, 0% privacy should be assumed by default.

by k4c9x 5y ago

How private do people actually think it is? It's a completely opaque system, 0% privacy should be assumed by default.

Quoting from https://www.apple.com/privacy/ https://www.apple.com/privacy/ : "Privacy is a fundamental human right. At Apple, it’s also one of our core values. Your devices are important to so many parts of your life. What you share from those experiences, and who you share it with, should be up to you. We design Apple products to protect your privacy and give you control over your information. It’s not always easy. But that’s the kind of innovation we believe in." So, according to Apple, it is designed "to protect your privacy and give you control over your information".

pixelgeek 5y ago
Until the Chinese government asks them not to
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  Or the US government asks them not to. Apple gives up US customers' data for about 150,000 users/accounts a year[1]. [1] https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html
  - ekianjo 5y ago
    In China this is probably a day's worth.
    - FpUser 5y ago
      So you swallow any BS in your own country and feel good just because it is worse in China? That's some really high bar you've got.
- caeril 5y ago
  s/Chinese/any government representing a material amount of their revenue/ Don't be deceived; the San Bernardino case was a very intentionally public op to convince us that they will "fight" for our right to privacy, but the not-so-public track record since has demonstrated their absolute willingness to lick the boots of virtually every government whose citizens impact their top line materially. This isn't a slag on Apple, specifically. Facebook, Google, et al will declaim "Russian Propaganda" all day long and then immediately roll over for Russian demands to censor political opposition, for instance. They all do it. It's all a show. You have no privacy with any of Big Tech, regardless of where you live.
  - redprince 5y ago
    > but the not-so-public track record since has demonstrated their absolute willingness to lick the boots of virtually every government whose citizens impact their top line materially. Is there any public information that supports this claim?
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/ https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/ See for yourself.
      - redprince 5y ago
        They comply with the law to the extend that they can. Apple by design locked themselves out of the capability to provide people's data in many circumstances. So the fact that requests exist says very little about what was actually provided.
  - dwaite 5y ago
    > but the not-so-public track record since has demonstrated their absolute willingness to lick the boots of virtually every government whose citizens impact their top line materially. What sort of percentage of the entries on that unprinted list can be summarized as "they follow the law in the places where they do business?"
- judge2020 5y ago
  For as long as a company doesn't think selling in a country risks losing more money than they make by selling there, they will be beholden to the requests of that country. You have to see Apple as its own nation state, as this is how it works everywhere - leaders will weigh the economic damage of losing trade with evil countries with the damage caused to their reputation/re-election chances by not doing anything about it.
shkkmo 5y ago
Isn't it worse to lie to you about your level of privacy than to be upfront about the data you collect?
sneak 5y ago
This is a lie. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusive-idUSKBN1ZK1CT https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusiv... https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/21/21075033/apple-icloud-end-to-end-encryption-scrapped-fbi-reuters-report https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/21/21075033/apple-icloud-end... The iPhone uploads very nearly the entire contents of the device every night by default to Apple, in a format Apple can easily read.
- ViViDboarder 5y ago
  Mine doesn’t. It’s ostensibly expected that a backup is going to send your data somewhere. I don’t use iCloud backups for that reason. Also, some iCloud backup data is e2ee. The document it here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    > Also, some iCloud backup data is e2ee. The document it here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 Some of it is "E2EE", but Apple holds the keys that can decrypt that data.
    - katbyte 5y ago
      Read the link, not all of it can be: Data types that are protected by end-to-end encryption—such as your Keychain, Messages, Screen Time, and Health data—are not accessible via iCloud Data Recovery Service. Your device passcodes, which only you know, are required to decrypt and access them. Only you can access this information, and only on devices where you're signed in to iCloud.
- LeoPanthera 5y ago
  > by default No, not by default. That would be impossible, since iCloud Backup first requires an iCloud Account, and then requires enough iCloud storage space to backup your phone. You get 5GB for free, which is not enough for a lot of people.
- 5y ago

stonewareslord 5y ago

> It's a completely opaque system, 0% privacy should be assumed by default. I really dislike this framing and I could not disagree more. Android is open source does that mean it is also zero percent privacy? What about the Anom phone in recent news? If all three are zero percent privacy then would they not be equally private? iPhone is more private than Android as there's much less data exfiltration and the Anom phone is clearly less private than both. I love open source, but saying any closed source system is zero percent private is not helpful.