5 ms·

> why am I getting heavily down voted for discussing personal reasons why I enjoyed working in the office? My guess is that there has been chatter on how discu

by rewma 5y ago

> why am I getting heavily down voted for discussing personal reasons why I enjoyed working in the office? My guess is that there has been chatter on how discussions on WFO, specially in tech forums, are brigaded by shills to sell the illogical idea that getting back to the office is fantastic and awesome, and the hallmark of these shills is the fact that their arguments in favour of returning to office are simply unbelievable. And quite frankly you post reads like that. I have to say that I found it very weird, and outright unbelievable, that someone was arguing that commutes were "far more effective for unwinding". To me that makes no sense at all, because when working from home you are free to pick whatever you'd like to do with that time, instead of being forced to sit in a car or public transportation and waste away your life while you endure traffic. I mean, if suffering commutes is something you enjoy then if you work from home nothing stops you from hopping into your preferred means of transportation and go anywhere you'd like. But you can also do any other thing. Is driving to/from the office during rush hour the most pleasurable and relaxing thing possible? I quite doubt it. So why claim that being forced to do something is more effective at unwinding than actually pick whatever you'd like to do? It makes no sense.

hnlmorg 5y ago
I commute by train. I'm lucky enough to be guaranteed a seat. And it is a very comfortable ride. That time can be spent meditating with my favourite music playing in my earphones. There isn't a rats chance in hell I'd get that same quality time at home with two noisy kids running rampant throughout the house. Have you considered that perhaps people making comments like mine are not shills, they just have different personal circumstances that you hadn't encountered before?
- tech2 5y ago
  Assuming that your commute is around an hour means you're "only" paying £4k/annum (after tax) for that benefit. I agree there is a benefit to the commute (for me it was the walk/exercise), but I find it hard to rationalize otherwise and that's a willpower thing
- wdb 5y ago
  I wish commute by train would work in London. I had to commute for years out of London (living in Zone 1) and most of the time I didn't had a place to sit. Trains are also crazy loud in this country, and not really reliable and quite expensive. They charge pricing here that could get me a year country-wide travel first class card in Switzerland.
  - hnlmorg 5y ago
    Regarding London trains: it very much depends what line you go on and how far down that line you are as to whether you get a seat. The reliability and expense problems are very real though :(
    - wdb 5y ago
      I was taking the train from Paddington to Hays and Staines. Tube wise Central line is horrible. One reason to work from home lol
      - hnlmorg 5y ago
        By "train" I was thinking more the overground and national rail services rather than starting your journey from zone 1 of the underground. But I guess, technically, the underground is a "train" too
- throwme159 5y ago
  I doubt they have, given the way their post was written. Expecting tech people to have empathy is a bit much.
devnulll 5y ago
> [...] found it very weird, and outright unbelievable, that someone was arguing that commutes were "far more effective for unwinding". Ex (multi) FAANG engineering director here. I personally find that a 30 minute commute home is more effective for separating work and home than just the clock. The data published (by MSFT) shows employees are working more hours now than ever before. Now, those pale in comparison to things like on-call rotations, email on Cell Phones, Slack & Team's notifications on mobile, etc. The Amazon practice of "DevOps SDEs are always on-call" that's spread across the industry makes disengaging from work in order to engage with family & friends generally impossible, even on vacation.
- wdb 5y ago
  I like to go for a short walk after work to the local supermarket or walk to the local parks (like Hyde or Regent's Park)
- rewma 5y ago
  > Ex (multi) FAANG engineer here. I personally agree that a 30 minute commute home is more effective for separating work and home than just the clock. The data published (by MSFT) shows employees are working more hours now than ever before. Current FAANG engineer here. I totally disagree, and the numbers support my case. My organization saw a jump in productivity when switching to WFO accompanied by a considerable increased in job satisfaction. WFO, accompanied by flexible work hours, allowed everyone in my team to benefit from more personal time and also opportunities to research topics of interest, which already paid off in the product we developed.
  - devnulll 5y ago
    > Current FAANG engineer here. I totally disagree, and the numbers support my case. My organization saw a jump in productivity when switching to WFO accompanied by a considerable increased in job satisfaction. You're moving the goalpost on this. For me, as someone else stated, the separation between home life and work life is a bit easier with a commute. That's not touching on productivity, overall job satisfaction, or anything else. I'm not even talking tradeoffs here - there's no "I prefer to work from the office because XYZ". I prefer working from home, for a variety of reasons. However, I do recognize that in this one specific area - separation of work/home life, the commute was beneficial. Were I to list 50 pros/cons of working from home (which I've done), the winner is WFH. That doesn't mean an absence of positive aspects to the "work from the office" column.
yojo 5y ago
I used to commute ~40 minutes each way by streetcar. I spent the time sardined in with the other unfortunate folk, one hand on a strap, the other on my Kindle. Every day I cursed SFs oversubscribed transit system. Switching to WFH was way better. But I was reading a sci-fi book a week on the commute, after the shift I was lucky to get in four a year. In theory I could set aside 80 minutes a day for personal reading, but in practice it feels incredibly selfish to not help with the family and housework. Do I want to go back to muni hell? No. But I can understand how someone might have enjoyed their (non-car) commute. I will shoot myself before I ever go back to driving an hour each way on the 101 though.
hellisothers 5y ago
I’d never call my old ride home nuts to butts on BART “unwinding” but it certainly created a coda between work and home. Now when I walk out of my office at home I’m still in problem solving “work talk” mode and it takes a bit to get out of it.
Ms-J 5y ago
Or how about driving back home in rush-hour traffic after working an entire eight hour day? Even worse! Anyone advocating that people must return to the office are extreme lone-wolves. Or a CEO fronting as an employee.

by rewma 5y ago

hnlmorg 5y ago

I commute by train. I'm lucky enough to be guaranteed a seat. And it is a very comfortable ride. That time can be spent meditating with my favourite music playing in my earphones. There isn't a rats chance in hell I'd get that same quality time at home with two noisy kids running rampant throughout the house. Have you considered that perhaps people making comments like mine are not shills, they just have different personal circumstances that you hadn't encountered before?

tech2 5y ago
Assuming that your commute is around an hour means you're "only" paying £4k/annum (after tax) for that benefit. I agree there is a benefit to the commute (for me it was the walk/exercise), but I find it hard to rationalize otherwise and that's a willpower thing
wdb 5y ago
I wish commute by train would work in London. I had to commute for years out of London (living in Zone 1) and most of the time I didn't had a place to sit. Trains are also crazy loud in this country, and not really reliable and quite expensive. They charge pricing here that could get me a year country-wide travel first class card in Switzerland.
- hnlmorg 5y ago
  Regarding London trains: it very much depends what line you go on and how far down that line you are as to whether you get a seat. The reliability and expense problems are very real though :(
  - wdb 5y ago
    I was taking the train from Paddington to Hays and Staines. Tube wise Central line is horrible. One reason to work from home lol
    - hnlmorg 5y ago
      By "train" I was thinking more the overground and national rail services rather than starting your journey from zone 1 of the underground. But I guess, technically, the underground is a "train" too
throwme159 5y ago
I doubt they have, given the way their post was written. Expecting tech people to have empathy is a bit much.

devnulll 5y ago

> [...] found it very weird, and outright unbelievable, that someone was arguing that commutes were "far more effective for unwinding". Ex (multi) FAANG engineering director here. I personally find that a 30 minute commute home is more effective for separating work and home than just the clock. The data published (by MSFT) shows employees are working more hours now than ever before. Now, those pale in comparison to things like on-call rotations, email on Cell Phones, Slack & Team's notifications on mobile, etc. The Amazon practice of "DevOps SDEs are always on-call" that's spread across the industry makes disengaging from work in order to engage with family & friends generally impossible, even on vacation.

wdb 5y ago
I like to go for a short walk after work to the local supermarket or walk to the local parks (like Hyde or Regent's Park)
rewma 5y ago
> Ex (multi) FAANG engineer here. I personally agree that a 30 minute commute home is more effective for separating work and home than just the clock. The data published (by MSFT) shows employees are working more hours now than ever before. Current FAANG engineer here. I totally disagree, and the numbers support my case. My organization saw a jump in productivity when switching to WFO accompanied by a considerable increased in job satisfaction. WFO, accompanied by flexible work hours, allowed everyone in my team to benefit from more personal time and also opportunities to research topics of interest, which already paid off in the product we developed.
- devnulll 5y ago
  > Current FAANG engineer here. I totally disagree, and the numbers support my case. My organization saw a jump in productivity when switching to WFO accompanied by a considerable increased in job satisfaction. You're moving the goalpost on this. For me, as someone else stated, the separation between home life and work life is a bit easier with a commute. That's not touching on productivity, overall job satisfaction, or anything else. I'm not even talking tradeoffs here - there's no "I prefer to work from the office because XYZ". I prefer working from home, for a variety of reasons. However, I do recognize that in this one specific area - separation of work/home life, the commute was beneficial. Were I to list 50 pros/cons of working from home (which I've done), the winner is WFH. That doesn't mean an absence of positive aspects to the "work from the office" column.

yojo 5y ago

I used to commute ~40 minutes each way by streetcar. I spent the time sardined in with the other unfortunate folk, one hand on a strap, the other on my Kindle. Every day I cursed SFs oversubscribed transit system. Switching to WFH was way better. But I was reading a sci-fi book a week on the commute, after the shift I was lucky to get in four a year. In theory I could set aside 80 minutes a day for personal reading, but in practice it feels incredibly selfish to not help with the family and housework. Do I want to go back to muni hell? No. But I can understand how someone might have enjoyed their (non-car) commute. I will shoot myself before I ever go back to driving an hour each way on the 101 though.

hellisothers 5y ago

I’d never call my old ride home nuts to butts on BART “unwinding” but it certainly created a coda between work and home. Now when I walk out of my office at home I’m still in problem solving “work talk” mode and it takes a bit to get out of it.

Ms-J 5y ago

Or how about driving back home in rush-hour traffic after working an entire eight hour day? Even worse! Anyone advocating that people must return to the office are extreme lone-wolves. Or a CEO fronting as an employee.