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This spill was from an oil rig, not a tanker. Do rig and pipeline spills follow the same trend? Haven't found data on rigs yet, but pipeline spills do not. Pip

This spill was from an oil rig, not a tanker. Do rig and pipeline spills follow the same trend? Haven't found data on rigs yet, but pipeline spills do not. Pipeline incidents have been roughly constant over time: https://portal.phmsa.dot.gov/analytics/saw.dll?Portalpages&PortalPath=%2Fshared%2FPDM%20Public%20Website%2F_portal%2FSC%20Incident%20Trend&Page=All%20Reported https://portal.phmsa.dot.gov/analytics/saw.dll?Portalpages&P... Edit: Also, the data you referenced comes from an organization that's run by oil companies and tanker operators (https://www.itopf.org/about-us/the-board/ https://www.itopf.org/about-us/the-board/). I doubt they'd just fabricate data, but they are incentivized to massage the definition of what counts as an "oil spill from a tanker". If I were relying on this data I'd probably want to find an independent source. Edit 2: NOAA data of all spills does not show a downward trend: https://incidentnews.noaa.gov/raw/index https://incidentnews.noaa.gov/raw/index

gruez 5y ago
>Pipeline incidents have been roughly constant over time: https://portal.phmsa.dot.gov/analytics/saw.dll?Portalpages&P https://portal.phmsa.dot.gov/analytics/saw.dll?Portalpages&P... I couldn't get the link to work. If it's flat, but the amount of oil being transported is up, isn't that still a decline? >Edit 2: NOAA data of all spills does not show a downward trend: https://incidentnews.noaa.gov/raw/index https://incidentnews.noaa.gov/raw/index I fed the chart into excel and generated a graph: https://i.imgur.com/QKu2Yly.png https://i.imgur.com/QKu2Yly.png looks like even though incidents (orange line) is up, the amount spilled (blue) is down.
- burkaman 5y ago
  Sorry about the pipeline link, it's ALL REPORTED INCIDENT 20 YEAR TREND on this page: https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/data-and-statistics/pipeline/pipeline-incident-20-year-trends https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/data-and-statistics/pipeline/pipel.... I don't know if amount transported by pipeline is going up. I appreciate your optimism. The downward trend in amount spilled is nice to see, but that value is unknown for nearly half the entries, so I wouldn't read too much into it. I'm not saying it's impossible that things are getting better, I even think it's likely, but it's certainly not at the same level as airplane safety, where everything that can be done is being done and crashes are incredibly rare. It is trivial to find examples of the oil industry failing to do the bare minimum (here's one recent report, the first thing I found: https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-21-293 https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-21-293). I'm very comfortable stepping on a plane, but I would not be comfortable living next to a pipeline or making a living fishing next to an oil rig, and I think the statistics back up my feelings.
  - strogonoff 5y ago
    This makes for an interesting thought experiment: purposefully combining oil rigs and pipelines with populated areas, so that in case something goes wrong humans get hit first. I imagine then we'd hold oil infrastructure maintenance to a higher standard than the appalling “monthly surface checks”. Of course, it's idealistic and humans would never behave this way.
    - gruez 5y ago
      Aren't there already pipelines to crowded areas? I mean, that's where they're typically consumed right? Also, it's not like pipelines that are in the middle of nowhere could be replaced with pipelines in urban areas. The whole point of pipelines is to cross between where it's produced and where it's consumed. Even if you built a bunch of pipelines in populated areas for no reason in the hopes that it will gather more awareness, I suspect that what will happen isn't some sort effort to improve pipelines nationwide, only the ones in populated areas.
      - strogonoff 5y ago
        You underestimate how far-fetched the suggested thought experiment is—it presumes if there is some dangerous extraction away from populated areas (like a rig off shore), then there must be cities created there so that any trouble is felt and observed by humans first and then the rest of the ecosystem. For now there’s a social outcry if oil spills far away, but imagine you see dead ocean out of your window. Could be a sci-fi setting…

gruez 5y ago

>Pipeline incidents have been roughly constant over time: https://portal.phmsa.dot.gov/analytics/saw.dll?Portalpages&P https://portal.phmsa.dot.gov/analytics/saw.dll?Portalpages&P... I couldn't get the link to work. If it's flat, but the amount of oil being transported is up, isn't that still a decline? >Edit 2: NOAA data of all spills does not show a downward trend: https://incidentnews.noaa.gov/raw/index https://incidentnews.noaa.gov/raw/index I fed the chart into excel and generated a graph: https://i.imgur.com/QKu2Yly.png https://i.imgur.com/QKu2Yly.png looks like even though incidents (orange line) is up, the amount spilled (blue) is down.

burkaman 5y ago
Sorry about the pipeline link, it's ALL REPORTED INCIDENT 20 YEAR TREND on this page: https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/data-and-statistics/pipeline/pipeline-incident-20-year-trends https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/data-and-statistics/pipeline/pipel.... I don't know if amount transported by pipeline is going up. I appreciate your optimism. The downward trend in amount spilled is nice to see, but that value is unknown for nearly half the entries, so I wouldn't read too much into it. I'm not saying it's impossible that things are getting better, I even think it's likely, but it's certainly not at the same level as airplane safety, where everything that can be done is being done and crashes are incredibly rare. It is trivial to find examples of the oil industry failing to do the bare minimum (here's one recent report, the first thing I found: https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-21-293 https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-21-293). I'm very comfortable stepping on a plane, but I would not be comfortable living next to a pipeline or making a living fishing next to an oil rig, and I think the statistics back up my feelings.
- strogonoff 5y ago
  This makes for an interesting thought experiment: purposefully combining oil rigs and pipelines with populated areas, so that in case something goes wrong humans get hit first. I imagine then we'd hold oil infrastructure maintenance to a higher standard than the appalling “monthly surface checks”. Of course, it's idealistic and humans would never behave this way.
  - gruez 5y ago
    Aren't there already pipelines to crowded areas? I mean, that's where they're typically consumed right? Also, it's not like pipelines that are in the middle of nowhere could be replaced with pipelines in urban areas. The whole point of pipelines is to cross between where it's produced and where it's consumed. Even if you built a bunch of pipelines in populated areas for no reason in the hopes that it will gather more awareness, I suspect that what will happen isn't some sort effort to improve pipelines nationwide, only the ones in populated areas.
    - strogonoff 5y ago
      You underestimate how far-fetched the suggested thought experiment is—it presumes if there is some dangerous extraction away from populated areas (like a rig off shore), then there must be cities created there so that any trouble is felt and observed by humans first and then the rest of the ecosystem. For now there’s a social outcry if oil spills far away, but imagine you see dead ocean out of your window. Could be a sci-fi setting…