3 ms·

So, the problem is that you cannot reliably obtain genuine spare parts, not that alternatives exist, right? Also, there are more people taking their devices to

So, the problem is that you cannot reliably obtain genuine spare parts, not that alternatives exist, right? Also, there are more people taking their devices to "non-legit" stores than people attempting DIY screen repairs. Also, how on earth is bricking my phone (that I paid for) a more desirable outcome than letting me use an inferior display (that I paid for)? Also, what about all the cases where fake replacements are actually better (e.g. swapping out a 220Hz PWM ThinkPad display for a flicker-free one)? I honestly believe people who defend such company policies are just more focused on staying positive than on making a good argument (can't blame them, either).

Gigachad 5y ago
I get your perspective but I feel the situation is more complex than that. Replacement parts _never_ brick the phone. They can disable FaceID, TrueTone and show "non genuine" warnings. They also seem to bug out the cameras but this was fixed via an update on the 12 and seems likely to be fixed here too. The FaceID one seems legitimate as a malicious faceid sensor could compromise security. The truetone one looks like total rubbish and should be fixed. And the non genuine messages are useful. The problem is not you knowingly putting in a non genuine part. It's that a disappointing chunk of repair stalls and almost all online parts are non genuine and essentially fraud as they advertise as being genuine and better than the original parts. Often they are recycled parts from used / stolen devices which are worn out before you even get them. There are even stores in 3rd world countries which will remove genuine parts from your phone and replace them with fakes while doing something like a battery replacement. The non genuine message protects the customer who gets their phone repaired. It also protects the second hand buyer so they can see that the whole phone is genuine and no bad parts are used. It also protects the phone owner by making theft less valuable as the parts can not be used to their fullest. So I totally understand the issues with DIY repair here, but I also see all of the other issues at play. The main issue I see is that Apple does not do repairs on certain parts of the phone like the lightning port so if those parts break, they won't do anything for you. I'd like to see Apple and governments work together to find a solution that ensures users get maximum repairability while still being protected against part fraud. I'd like to see Apple have some open dialog with the public and governments about exactly _why_ each restriction is in place, what problems they face, and why they have to do things this way.
- NotPractical 5y ago
  > Replacement parts _never_ brick the phone. Bricking Face ID is essentially bricking the phone if it doesn't have fingerprint unlock. Everyone is accustomed to instant unlock these days (since the iPhone 5S of 2013). The camera "bugging out" is also absurd and clearly fabricated by iOS. There is absolutely no reason this should happen just because the serial number of the camera changed. iOS isn't open source so we can't track down their `fakeBugOutToScareUserAwayFromIndependentRepair()` function, but hopefully someone reverse engineers this eventually. It wouldn't be the first time someone found something "funny" hidden within iOS' codebase [1]. > The FaceID one seems legitimate as a malicious faceid sensor could compromise security This is an irrational fear. Do not let Apple scare you into believing this. > The problem is not you knowingly putting in a non genuine part. It's that a disappointing chunk of repair stalls and almost all online parts are non genuine and essentially fraud as they advertise as being genuine and better than the original parts. This is not a problem Apple can solve. There will always be liars. You must place a little trust in the person you buy a used product from; it's that simple. It's how it always has been, and always will be. Besides, if solving this problem were their real goal, why not just display warnings rather than also disable features, and only do so if the parts really aren't Apple-genuine (not just if the serial number has changed)? I am certain it would not be hard to change the code from: if (camera.serialNumber != mainboard.camera.serialNumber) { displayAnnoyingWarnings(); fakeBugOutToScareUserAwayFromIndependentRepair(); } to: if (!isGenuineApple(camera.serialNumber)) { displayDismissableWarning(); } Finally, why do you think this situation would not change for the better if Apple were forced to start selling replacements to everyone? I imagine the reason mostly non-genuine parts are sold online (if that is indeed true) is because it's really hard to access genuine parts. Before Apple introduced this "feature", things were mostly just fine. Android phones probably won't ever have this "feature", and things will probably still mostly be just fine long into the future. Of course there will be some instances of scams and whatnot. This is not news. > It also protects the phone owner by making theft less valuable as the parts can not be used to their fullest. Theft is another problem Apple cannot solve with software updates. iPhones will always be stolen, because the parts inside will always have intrinsic value. This "feature" is so vaguely connected to anti-theft that it's laughable, and I don't even know if Apple themselves claim this as a reason behind these changes; I've only heard it from Apple apologists. iCloud locks are already overkill and generate tons of e-waste, but this takes it even further and is just absurd. > I'd like to see Apple and governments work together Apple already does work with the government. They actively lobby against right to repair and report you to the police when your iPhone scans through your photos and finds something suspicious. > I'd like to see Apple have some open dialog with the public and governments about exactly _why_ each restriction is in place That might be a start, but you can be reasonably confident anything coming from Apple's PR team is total bullshit. If the real reason was that they just want to make a lot of money, do you really think they would tell you? [1] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/11/apple-settles-with-states-for-113m-over-iphone-battery-throttling/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/11/apple-settles-wi...

Gigachad 5y ago

I get your perspective but I feel the situation is more complex than that. Replacement parts _never_ brick the phone. They can disable FaceID, TrueTone and show "non genuine" warnings. They also seem to bug out the cameras but this was fixed via an update on the 12 and seems likely to be fixed here too. The FaceID one seems legitimate as a malicious faceid sensor could compromise security. The truetone one looks like total rubbish and should be fixed. And the non genuine messages are useful. The problem is not you knowingly putting in a non genuine part. It's that a disappointing chunk of repair stalls and almost all online parts are non genuine and essentially fraud as they advertise as being genuine and better than the original parts. Often they are recycled parts from used / stolen devices which are worn out before you even get them. There are even stores in 3rd world countries which will remove genuine parts from your phone and replace them with fakes while doing something like a battery replacement. The non genuine message protects the customer who gets their phone repaired. It also protects the second hand buyer so they can see that the whole phone is genuine and no bad parts are used. It also protects the phone owner by making theft less valuable as the parts can not be used to their fullest. So I totally understand the issues with DIY repair here, but I also see all of the other issues at play. The main issue I see is that Apple does not do repairs on certain parts of the phone like the lightning port so if those parts break, they won't do anything for you. I'd like to see Apple and governments work together to find a solution that ensures users get maximum repairability while still being protected against part fraud. I'd like to see Apple have some open dialog with the public and governments about exactly _why_ each restriction is in place, what problems they face, and why they have to do things this way.

NotPractical 5y ago
> Replacement parts _never_ brick the phone. Bricking Face ID is essentially bricking the phone if it doesn't have fingerprint unlock. Everyone is accustomed to instant unlock these days (since the iPhone 5S of 2013). The camera "bugging out" is also absurd and clearly fabricated by iOS. There is absolutely no reason this should happen just because the serial number of the camera changed. iOS isn't open source so we can't track down their `fakeBugOutToScareUserAwayFromIndependentRepair()` function, but hopefully someone reverse engineers this eventually. It wouldn't be the first time someone found something "funny" hidden within iOS' codebase [1]. > The FaceID one seems legitimate as a malicious faceid sensor could compromise security This is an irrational fear. Do not let Apple scare you into believing this. > The problem is not you knowingly putting in a non genuine part. It's that a disappointing chunk of repair stalls and almost all online parts are non genuine and essentially fraud as they advertise as being genuine and better than the original parts. This is not a problem Apple can solve. There will always be liars. You must place a little trust in the person you buy a used product from; it's that simple. It's how it always has been, and always will be. Besides, if solving this problem were their real goal, why not just display warnings rather than also disable features, and only do so if the parts really aren't Apple-genuine (not just if the serial number has changed)? I am certain it would not be hard to change the code from: if (camera.serialNumber != mainboard.camera.serialNumber) { displayAnnoyingWarnings(); fakeBugOutToScareUserAwayFromIndependentRepair(); } to: if (!isGenuineApple(camera.serialNumber)) { displayDismissableWarning(); } Finally, why do you think this situation would not change for the better if Apple were forced to start selling replacements to everyone? I imagine the reason mostly non-genuine parts are sold online (if that is indeed true) is because it's really hard to access genuine parts. Before Apple introduced this "feature", things were mostly just fine. Android phones probably won't ever have this "feature", and things will probably still mostly be just fine long into the future. Of course there will be some instances of scams and whatnot. This is not news. > It also protects the phone owner by making theft less valuable as the parts can not be used to their fullest. Theft is another problem Apple cannot solve with software updates. iPhones will always be stolen, because the parts inside will always have intrinsic value. This "feature" is so vaguely connected to anti-theft that it's laughable, and I don't even know if Apple themselves claim this as a reason behind these changes; I've only heard it from Apple apologists. iCloud locks are already overkill and generate tons of e-waste, but this takes it even further and is just absurd. > I'd like to see Apple and governments work together Apple already does work with the government. They actively lobby against right to repair and report you to the police when your iPhone scans through your photos and finds something suspicious. > I'd like to see Apple have some open dialog with the public and governments about exactly _why_ each restriction is in place That might be a start, but you can be reasonably confident anything coming from Apple's PR team is total bullshit. If the real reason was that they just want to make a lot of money, do you really think they would tell you? [1] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/11/apple-settles-with-states-for-113m-over-iphone-battery-throttling/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/11/apple-settles-wi...