3 ms·

Aren't there plenty of sex scenes in TV shows these days? So much that I frequently want to fast-forward. So much that I wonder if "sex" has become the ultimate

Aren't there plenty of sex scenes in TV shows these days? So much that I frequently want to fast-forward. So much that I wonder if "sex" has become the ultimate plot device. Strangers? One-night stand, and they are best buddies ever. Angry at each other? Rage sex, and all the animosity gone. Not thinking clearly? Sex with your partner calms you down. Thinking clearly? Sex with a seductive villain dazzles your mind. Seems kinda lazy to me. > Why bother showing men and women connecting emotionally and sexually when you can rake in billions by having Steve Rogers and Tony Stark punch aliens—or, occasionally, each other? I don't understand sentences like these. That's like saying "why bother eating oranges when you can eat an apple?" It frames the comparison in a way that suggest erotic movies are more bothersome to produce, which doesn't make sense. Superhero movies are more successful due to many reasons: big budget, proven formulaic plots, fan base, etc. but definitely not because they are less bothersome to produce.

Jedd 5y ago
> Aren't there plenty of sex scenes in TV shows these days? Very probably. TFA does not include the string 'TV' or 'television', but has 16 occurrences of 'movie', so perhaps you're arguing against a point that's not being asserted. > I don't understand sentences like these. And that's okay. As TFA points out, China (and elsewhere) are significant markets with specific and (to western culture) peculiar requirements in terms of being culturally palatable. The question is cogent, concise, and valid -- if you're a movie maker (motivated by money/fame/whatever) why would you try to contend with complex and difficult material if you could instead, as they author asks, more easily rake in billions by having two asexual fictional character punch aliens. > Superhero movies are more successful due to many reasons: big budget, proven formulaic plots, fan base, etc. but definitely not because they are less bothersome to produce. It's not so much bothersomeness that's the key criteria, but I'd suggest that big budgets don't guarantee a film's success anymore than a proven formulae (there's only 7 after all) or a large fan base (plenty of fan bases are both enormous and enormously unsatisfied). Read some of the literature on why Marvel has been so popular in the China market for some context here -- for example this piece (but there's an abundance) : https://variety.com/2019/film/news/avengers-endgame-marvel-universe-china-box-office-1203197686/ https://variety.com/2019/film/news/avengers-endgame-marvel-u...
- powersnail 5y ago
  > The question is cogent, concise, and valid -- if you're a movie maker (motivated by money/fame/whatever) why would you try to contend with complex and difficult material if you could instead, as they author asks, more easily rake in billions by having two asexual fictional character punch aliens. I guess my confusion is stemmed from the fact that I don't think sex scenes are inherently more complex and difficult than alien punching. Perhaps more difficult to sell due to ratings, but that's a given. I'm not endorsing the way Marvel is making movies; I think it's quite formulaic and intellectually lazy. But on the other hand, sex can easily be just as formulaic and lazy. My opinion is that Marvel didn't include sex in their movies simply because PG-13 has a bigger market and makes more money. If sex would sell better, they'll put sex in there with very little effort, and it wouldn't make those movies any less formulaic. Of course, I'm anything but a movie expert; sex might really be more difficult to contend with, but the author hardly provided any explanation to support this claim, and thus I remain unpersuaded. --- And as a Chinese person, I'd suggest that Marvel is successful in China, because as formulaic as it is, it simply produces far better movie than current mainstream Chinese movies in almost every aspect. Chinese film making (mainstream) has been pacing backwards for at least the last decade.
  - Jedd 5y ago
    Sure, and I agree that sex scenes aren't inherently more complex / difficult to film than fight scenes (caveats around CGI, green screen, etc complexities that are more likely required in the latter). As intimated though, the challenge is keeping China happy - there's been a constant series of articles about this phenomenon. Beyond the acceptance of ultra-violence along with a distaste for sexuality, consider all the political hand-wringing that led Disney to the Iron Man 3 fracas. [0] Or informed their decisions around promoting any films with a non-white protagonist. [1] But really, any web search on 'how are the chinese market cuts of marvel films different' will get you a slew of results. Aside - about 15 years ago, while in Hong Kong, I picked up a bootleg DVD of Love Actually (a highly popular, but arguably shite, film). Turned out that the local cut of that film excised every appearance of Martin Freeman & Joanna Page. [0] https://screenrant.com/iron-man-3-china-version-different-scenes/ https://screenrant.com/iron-man-3-china-version-different-sc... [1] https://qz.com/quartzy/1231764/the-story-behind-the-racist-responses-to-black-panther-in-china/ https://qz.com/quartzy/1231764/the-story-behind-the-racist-r...
Hnrobert42 5y ago
I didn’t read the “why bother” question as an either-or between erotic films and superhero movies. I saw it as an either-or between including a sex scene in a superhero movie or another action sequence. Considering that choice, a sex scene is more bother because of the two reasons the author offers – commercial and cultural.

Jedd 5y ago

> Aren't there plenty of sex scenes in TV shows these days? Very probably. TFA does not include the string 'TV' or 'television', but has 16 occurrences of 'movie', so perhaps you're arguing against a point that's not being asserted. > I don't understand sentences like these. And that's okay. As TFA points out, China (and elsewhere) are significant markets with specific and (to western culture) peculiar requirements in terms of being culturally palatable. The question is cogent, concise, and valid -- if you're a movie maker (motivated by money/fame/whatever) why would you try to contend with complex and difficult material if you could instead, as they author asks, more easily rake in billions by having two asexual fictional character punch aliens. > Superhero movies are more successful due to many reasons: big budget, proven formulaic plots, fan base, etc. but definitely not because they are less bothersome to produce. It's not so much bothersomeness that's the key criteria, but I'd suggest that big budgets don't guarantee a film's success anymore than a proven formulae (there's only 7 after all) or a large fan base (plenty of fan bases are both enormous and enormously unsatisfied). Read some of the literature on why Marvel has been so popular in the China market for some context here -- for example this piece (but there's an abundance) : https://variety.com/2019/film/news/avengers-endgame-marvel-universe-china-box-office-1203197686/ https://variety.com/2019/film/news/avengers-endgame-marvel-u...

powersnail 5y ago
> The question is cogent, concise, and valid -- if you're a movie maker (motivated by money/fame/whatever) why would you try to contend with complex and difficult material if you could instead, as they author asks, more easily rake in billions by having two asexual fictional character punch aliens. I guess my confusion is stemmed from the fact that I don't think sex scenes are inherently more complex and difficult than alien punching. Perhaps more difficult to sell due to ratings, but that's a given. I'm not endorsing the way Marvel is making movies; I think it's quite formulaic and intellectually lazy. But on the other hand, sex can easily be just as formulaic and lazy. My opinion is that Marvel didn't include sex in their movies simply because PG-13 has a bigger market and makes more money. If sex would sell better, they'll put sex in there with very little effort, and it wouldn't make those movies any less formulaic. Of course, I'm anything but a movie expert; sex might really be more difficult to contend with, but the author hardly provided any explanation to support this claim, and thus I remain unpersuaded. --- And as a Chinese person, I'd suggest that Marvel is successful in China, because as formulaic as it is, it simply produces far better movie than current mainstream Chinese movies in almost every aspect. Chinese film making (mainstream) has been pacing backwards for at least the last decade.
- Jedd 5y ago
  Sure, and I agree that sex scenes aren't inherently more complex / difficult to film than fight scenes (caveats around CGI, green screen, etc complexities that are more likely required in the latter). As intimated though, the challenge is keeping China happy - there's been a constant series of articles about this phenomenon. Beyond the acceptance of ultra-violence along with a distaste for sexuality, consider all the political hand-wringing that led Disney to the Iron Man 3 fracas. [0] Or informed their decisions around promoting any films with a non-white protagonist. [1] But really, any web search on 'how are the chinese market cuts of marvel films different' will get you a slew of results. Aside - about 15 years ago, while in Hong Kong, I picked up a bootleg DVD of Love Actually (a highly popular, but arguably shite, film). Turned out that the local cut of that film excised every appearance of Martin Freeman & Joanna Page. [0] https://screenrant.com/iron-man-3-china-version-different-scenes/ https://screenrant.com/iron-man-3-china-version-different-sc... [1] https://qz.com/quartzy/1231764/the-story-behind-the-racist-responses-to-black-panther-in-china/ https://qz.com/quartzy/1231764/the-story-behind-the-racist-r...

Hnrobert42 5y ago

I didn’t read the “why bother” question as an either-or between erotic films and superhero movies. I saw it as an either-or between including a sex scene in a superhero movie or another action sequence. Considering that choice, a sex scene is more bother because of the two reasons the author offers – commercial and cultural.