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For sake of argument we will be presuming below that ZFC is consistent. While it is true that ZFC is model-complete in your sense (which holds for all first-or
by rssoconnor 5y ago
For sake of argument we will be presuming below that ZFC is consistent.
While it is true that ZFC is model-complete in your sense (which holds for all first-order theories as you note), ZFC has many non-standard models that come with with non-standard sets of natural numbers within them. There are Σ₁-sentences that are false in models with standard sets of natural numbers but are true in models with non-standard sets of numbers.
Tarski's definition of truth, which I'm using for the definition of (in)completeness in my comment, excludes non-standard models because it requires, for example, for a Σ₁-sentence ∃x. P(x) to be considered true, that there actually exist a numeral (e.g. a closed term such as 42), 'n' where P(n) is true (recalling P is a decidable predicate the truth or falsity of P(n) can be determined (in principle) by calculation). When a Σ₁-sentence is only true in models with non-standard natural numbers, such numerals that witness P do not exist.
Some people argue that non-standard natural numbers are just as good as standard natural numbers, and you can try that argument I suppose. However, if I'm hiring someone do formal analysis of some algorithm and they "prove" that it is terminating by showing it terminates in some non-standard number of iterations, then I'm just going to fire them because such a result isn't helpful for reasoning about programs.
There is a material difference between standard and non-standard natural numbers. The standard natural numbers are formed in a natural way from the terms that make up the formal language of the first-order logic under consideration (i.e. the terms that are numerals), but the non-standard natural numbers cannot since they include "numbers" that have no associated numeral. Also note this way of characterizing the standard natural numbers won't work for characterizing "standard sets", because we do not expect all sets to come with canonical concrete terms denoting them, like we do expect for natural numbers.
- auggierose 5y agoVery helpful answer, thank you! I suspected that it has something to do with "Tarski's definition of truth", but there seem to be different ideas around about what this means. While Wikipedia agrees with yours, I can point to at least one popular book ("An Introduction to Mathematical Logic" by Richard E. Hodel) that equates Tarski truth just with model theoretic truth. I wouldn't fire the analyst in your example, by the way, because the fault would be mine: I should have just specified what complexity bound would be acceptable in a termination proof of the algorithm for it to be practical for my purposes.
- rssoconnor 5y agoI guess Tarski's definition of truth is relative to some interpretation, but the usual unqualified version of his definition is implicitly relative to the standard model of natural numbers. (Edit: or maybe it is me who is using the notion of Tarski's definition of truth incorrectly.)
- rssoconnor 5y ago> I wouldn't fire the analyst in your example, by the way, because the fault would be mine: I should have just specified what complexity bound would be acceptable in a termination proof of the algorithm for it to be practical for my purposes. I thought someone might say something like this. My counter is that if the analyst just used a normal proof system (i.e. one that doesn't assume false (in the standard model) axioms) then we could use Goedel's Dialectica [1] to mine the proof for some (probably crappy) complexity bound. That said, this is getting close to the edge of my knowledge on this subject. [1] http://math.stanford.edu/~feferman/papers/dialectica.pdf http://math.stanford.edu/~feferman/papers/dialectica.pdf