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In response to Nillay I left this brief comment: Nilay, I think your patent exchange misses a key point in software. No one reads them. Nobody reads patents.
by kenjackson 15y ago
In response to Nillay I left this brief comment:
Nilay, I think your patent exchange misses a key point in software. No one reads them. Nobody reads patents. In fact, go talk to a Microsoft and Apple engineer about patents and they'll tell you that not only do they not read them, their corporate policy does NOT allow engineers to read patents. Apparently it drastically increases the likelihood of treble damages for the company.
You give the PageRank example, missing though that there was work from IBM that was very similar. See this classic paper, "Authorative Sources in a HyperLinked Environment" from 1997(http://www.cs.cornell.edu/home... http://www.cs.cornell.edu/home.... The genius/luck of Google was continuing to push this idea of search, when no one else seemed all that interested (recall AltaVista, Yahoo, and Lycos had all seen Google's results and were offered a chance to buy the company -- they all passed. Their genius was in persisting and not giving up and getting their PhD.)
The Apple patent you show is an example of what I call, "Being the first to ask the question". I'm not sure how else you'd solve the problem besides how they did it. It's the obvious way to do it. They probably lucked out because they were the first company to be faced with the question. This has become rampant in the mobile industry. Whenever you have a new form factor, there are new problems. They aren't necessarily hard, but they're new. And the fact that they're new problems means there's no prior art. You can suddenly file a bunch of patents based on your solutions, 99% of whcih are the same solutions the guy across the street would come up with in six months when he happens to hit the same problem. That's not innovation -- that's blocking innovation as it ensures your six month advantage becomes a 15 year advantage (or however long patents expire).
Nobody in SW reads patents. Furthermore patents are actually very hard for those in the field to follow. They use non-standard jargon. I'd much rather read source code or a CS paper to get the ideas -- as those are usually written just by the actual developer, and not translated by the lawyer.
And an unrelated, but important point, IMO. SW, unlike most other endeavors, is something that people rapidly build on. People still take aspirin today, in the exact same form as 50 years ago. No one uses a piece of software in the exact same form as 50 years ago. The closest is probably vi, but even vi has had significant code churn over the past 30 years -- it's quite possible that it currently shares no lines of code from the original version. SW evolves rapidly. Patents seem much better suited for fields where inventions can stand on their own for significant periods of time.
- chc 15y agoBesides the fact that they're written by lawyers, a major reason software patents use such odd, useless jargon is because algorithms aren't actually meant to be patentable, but the PTO will let them through if they sufficiently submerge the algorithm in a sea of other gunk.
- nikcub 15y agoMark Lemley wrote an entire paper on patents being ignored: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=999961 http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=999961 > both researchers and companies in component industries simply ignore patents. Virtually everyone does it. They do it at all stages of endeavor. From the perspective of an outsider to the patent system, this is a remarkable fact. And yet it may be what prevents the patent system from crushing innovation in component industries like IT.
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- kubrickslair 15y agoAgreed, but see how many people replied to your comment there. And how many instead say that this is a great article. And this is on a gadget site, with better demographic than most. One problem is that explaining this is very difficult to a regular crowd, even a gadget obsessed techie crowd. The best thing that comes to my mind is the 'Everything is a Remix' video. And people without the right experience will still be able to finess decent arguments for patents by only watching that.
- jholman 15y agoRegarding vi, most vi users use vim, which dates only to 1988, on the Amiga. The unix port of vim is less than 20 years old. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vim_%28text_editor%29#Release_history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vim_%28text_editor%29#Release_h...
- GHFigs 15y agoNo one reads them. Nobody reads patents. I do. I do with some regularity, and each time I come away more convinced that the majority of the press and discussion on the subject is complete garbage precisely because people don't bother to read them. You give the PageRank example, missing though that there was work from IBM that was very similar. There was a lot of similar work. There is always similar work. You'll find examples of it in the references section of the patent that nobody reads. Including: 'Jon M. Kleinberg, "Authoritative sources in a hyperlinked environment," 1998, Proc. Of the 9.sup.th Annual ACM-SIAM Symposium on Discrete Algorithms, pp. 668-677.'