4 ms·

I'm a bit torn about this. I think a good compromise is for Apple to offer selling "genuine parts" to anyone who practically wants it; and maybe, allow changing

by csomar 5y ago

I'm a bit torn about this. I think a good compromise is for Apple to offer selling "genuine parts" to anyone who practically wants it; and maybe, allow changing parts once the main owner release control. Apple's devices are quite expensive. iCloud locking have made them worth less in the black-market, but the components are still worth something. This will make Apple's devices worth next to nothing in the black market and as a consequence less of a risk of being a target of petty theft.

orangepanda 5y ago
> I think a good compromise is for Apple to offer selling "genuine parts" to anyone who practically wants it; and maybe, allow changing parts once the main owner release control. They sell hundreds of millions of devices each year. A problem I haven’t seen discussed much — could Apple’s suppliers actually deliver enough parts for new phones and spare parts? Tesla supposedly has the same problem with spare parts being unavailable, as everything goes into new products.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  > They sell hundreds of millions of devices each year. A problem I haven’t seen discussed much — could Apple’s suppliers actually deliver enough parts for new phones and spare parts? Since they already sell hundreds of millions of devices a year, I'd say yes. Do you think that if demand for whole devices increased worldwide, Apple wouldn't be able to fulfill it?
  - tjoff 5y ago
    Well, the incentives are not that great - since the alternative is to sell a whole new phone and noone can use the old one.
  - nicce 5y ago
    > Do you think that if demand for whole devices increased worldwide, Apple wouldn't be able to fulfill it? They aren’t able, as the current situation is living proof from that. Note the ongoing chip/semiconductor crisis.
    - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
      Sure, but this is recent and temporary, and caused in large part by a once-in-a-century pandemic.
      - nicce 5y ago
        It is not pandemic alone, otherwise we would have supply already. This problem has developed for years already[1]. And what about pandemic, because of it, supply chains were surprised with the demand of elecronics. So, they could not respond for the demand. And Apple would have had a limit anyway for chip manufacturing based on this. [1] : https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58230388 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58230388
luegen 5y ago
Petty theft is more an issue of economic inequality. If the criminal had an incentive for being honorable citizens, then theft would not happen.
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  Not sure. If you add up damages from theft, by far the rich and powerful steal more in absolute terms.
  - ir123 5y ago
    But that's not petty theft
    - mensetmanusman 5y ago
      Not necessarily, insider trading steals a dollar from a few million people. It is petty theft at scale.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- barry-cotter 5y ago
  Have you so little respect for people that you think they are all thieves? In India and China, countries in which most of the top 10% by income would fall below the US poverty line most people never steal. Theft is not mostly about poverty.
  - cassianoleal 5y ago
    Weird take. Petty theft (like the one being discussed here) can definitely be correlated with inequality. I agree that most people will not steal. That's been my experience of growing up in a country with rampant poverty and inequality (and crime). That said, the more people are in need, the more incentive for them to look for solutions outside of a system that has inherently failed them and the people they know. I have myself been robbed and assaulted multiple times. I have had relatives kidnapped. Cars stolen leaving or entering their own garage, sometimes in nice areas of the city. I have been myself held at gunpoint by both criminals and police. The house I grew up in has been burglarised multiple times. I have not once, and don't know a single person who has been assaulted or robbed by a middle or upper class person. There is probably also some correlation between white collar crime and corruption, and poverty, but I suspect the direction of causality goes the other way around in this case.
NotPractical 5y ago
You should not be torn. Apple is blatantly acting against your interests as a user, and you should be adamantly against this. You always need to place some level of trust in anyone you're allowing to repair your device -- even if they're using genuine Apple parts, they might not know how to properly work with them, for example. But this is why we have reviews. (By the way, they would be more likely to know how to do proper repairs if Apple freely published the top-secret internal repair documentation they already have, so they could just use that instead of random third-party guides, but that's another topic.) As a user, you should always have the choice of who to trust with your device's repair, just like you have a choice between mechanics working on your car. As a reminder, if you don't trust third party repair shops, right to repair laws don't force anyone to make use of them. You're free to be overcharged by Apple if you want. But it's important to have a choice. Also, theft is not a problem that you can solve with software. People will always steal iPhones because there will always be at least some value to the components inside. I guarantee you that iCloud locking was not even a factor in the decision Apple made to implement this bullshit into iOS: if (camera.serialNumber != mainboard.camera.serialNumber) { freakTheFuckOutForNoReason() } The only factor in this decision was most likely Apple's relentless, unending quest to acquire as many US dollars as possible, despite already having ~200 billion of them reserved [1]. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/27/apple-q1-cash-hoard-heres-how-much-apple-has-on-hand.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/27/apple-q1-cash-hoard-heres-ho...

by csomar 5y ago

orangepanda 5y ago

> I think a good compromise is for Apple to offer selling "genuine parts" to anyone who practically wants it; and maybe, allow changing parts once the main owner release control. They sell hundreds of millions of devices each year. A problem I haven’t seen discussed much — could Apple’s suppliers actually deliver enough parts for new phones and spare parts? Tesla supposedly has the same problem with spare parts being unavailable, as everything goes into new products.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago
> They sell hundreds of millions of devices each year. A problem I haven’t seen discussed much — could Apple’s suppliers actually deliver enough parts for new phones and spare parts? Since they already sell hundreds of millions of devices a year, I'd say yes. Do you think that if demand for whole devices increased worldwide, Apple wouldn't be able to fulfill it?
- tjoff 5y ago
  Well, the incentives are not that great - since the alternative is to sell a whole new phone and noone can use the old one.
- nicce 5y ago
  > Do you think that if demand for whole devices increased worldwide, Apple wouldn't be able to fulfill it? They aren’t able, as the current situation is living proof from that. Note the ongoing chip/semiconductor crisis.
  - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
    Sure, but this is recent and temporary, and caused in large part by a once-in-a-century pandemic.
    - nicce 5y ago
      It is not pandemic alone, otherwise we would have supply already. This problem has developed for years already[1]. And what about pandemic, because of it, supply chains were surprised with the demand of elecronics. So, they could not respond for the demand. And Apple would have had a limit anyway for chip manufacturing based on this. [1] : https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58230388 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58230388

luegen 5y ago

Petty theft is more an issue of economic inequality. If the criminal had an incentive for being honorable citizens, then theft would not happen.

mensetmanusman 5y ago
Not sure. If you add up damages from theft, by far the rich and powerful steal more in absolute terms.
- ir123 5y ago
  But that's not petty theft
  - mensetmanusman 5y ago
    Not necessarily, insider trading steals a dollar from a few million people. It is petty theft at scale.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
barry-cotter 5y ago
Have you so little respect for people that you think they are all thieves? In India and China, countries in which most of the top 10% by income would fall below the US poverty line most people never steal. Theft is not mostly about poverty.
- cassianoleal 5y ago
  Weird take. Petty theft (like the one being discussed here) can definitely be correlated with inequality. I agree that most people will not steal. That's been my experience of growing up in a country with rampant poverty and inequality (and crime). That said, the more people are in need, the more incentive for them to look for solutions outside of a system that has inherently failed them and the people they know. I have myself been robbed and assaulted multiple times. I have had relatives kidnapped. Cars stolen leaving or entering their own garage, sometimes in nice areas of the city. I have been myself held at gunpoint by both criminals and police. The house I grew up in has been burglarised multiple times. I have not once, and don't know a single person who has been assaulted or robbed by a middle or upper class person. There is probably also some correlation between white collar crime and corruption, and poverty, but I suspect the direction of causality goes the other way around in this case.

NotPractical 5y ago

You should not be torn. Apple is blatantly acting against your interests as a user, and you should be adamantly against this. You always need to place some level of trust in anyone you're allowing to repair your device -- even if they're using genuine Apple parts, they might not know how to properly work with them, for example. But this is why we have reviews. (By the way, they would be more likely to know how to do proper repairs if Apple freely published the top-secret internal repair documentation they already have, so they could just use that instead of random third-party guides, but that's another topic.) As a user, you should always have the choice of who to trust with your device's repair, just like you have a choice between mechanics working on your car. As a reminder, if you don't trust third party repair shops, right to repair laws don't force anyone to make use of them. You're free to be overcharged by Apple if you want. But it's important to have a choice. Also, theft is not a problem that you can solve with software. People will always steal iPhones because there will always be at least some value to the components inside. I guarantee you that iCloud locking was not even a factor in the decision Apple made to implement this bullshit into iOS: if (camera.serialNumber != mainboard.camera.serialNumber) { freakTheFuckOutForNoReason() } The only factor in this decision was most likely Apple's relentless, unending quest to acquire as many US dollars as possible, despite already having ~200 billion of them reserved [1]. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/27/apple-q1-cash-hoard-heres-how-much-apple-has-on-hand.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/27/apple-q1-cash-hoard-heres-ho...