3 ms·

You're the customer. If you don't like the service they provide, you can choose to spend your money/attention elsewhere. There's no more powerful representation

You're the customer. If you don't like the service they provide, you can choose to spend your money/attention elsewhere. There's no more powerful representation than that

jimkleiber 5y ago
There's much more powerful representation than that. Actually having representation in the decision making process. The most powerful, I'd argue, is being able to make the decisions of the platform. Leaving seems like almost zero representation to me. Now, it doesn't mean zero freedom, yes, people have freedom to leave. I just don't see that as representation.
- joshuamorton 5y ago
  If Facebook were, say, democratically operated, with users voting on feature prioritization and such, how do you think it would look different?
  - jimkleiber 5y ago
    I love this question and admittedly, it took my breath away, almost speechless that I could be a part of FB, instead of being given whatever management wants to give me. Honestly, I'm not sure how it would look. I imagine it might feel different. I imagine I might feel a little more hopeful, instead of so helpless. A little more calm, less filled with dread. I imagine I might feel a little more relaxed, believing I have some say in a safety valve to keep the platform going, in case some leader takes it in a direction that most of us don't want. I don't know if I'd even want direct democracy, where we users vote on feature prioritization and other nitty-gritty details, I may like some type of representative democracy. I don't know. It may not look different but maybe it would feel different. Does that make any sense?
    - cmoscoso 5y ago
      With all due respect, that sounds like Stockholm syndrome to me. If Facebook makes you feel "helpless" and "filled with dread", then probably the most empowering choice is to stop using Facebook.
      - jimkleiber 5y ago
        I'm pretty sure Stockholm Syndrome is when one falls in love with their hostage taker, which sounds pretty different than me feeling distance or animosity towards Facebook. Fair point in that it may not be so healthy for me to stay, although leaving also has its strong downsides, which may contribute to this feeling of helplessness, and yet I'm almost certain it's not Stockholm syndrome. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
cratermoon 5y ago
No, you're not the customer. You're the product. The customers are ad-buying corporations and data-hungry advocacy organizations.
smolder 5y ago
Yeah, that's the same as how if I don't like the country I was born in, I can make a raft and take off into the ocean to be a citizen of nothing. It might seem like a hyperbolic analogy, but it's a matter of degrees. Network effects are powerful.

You're the customer. If you don't like the service they provide, you can choose to spend your money/attention elsewhere. There's no more powerful representation than that

jimkleiber 5y ago

There's much more powerful representation than that. Actually having representation in the decision making process. The most powerful, I'd argue, is being able to make the decisions of the platform. Leaving seems like almost zero representation to me. Now, it doesn't mean zero freedom, yes, people have freedom to leave. I just don't see that as representation.

joshuamorton 5y ago
If Facebook were, say, democratically operated, with users voting on feature prioritization and such, how do you think it would look different?
- jimkleiber 5y ago
  I love this question and admittedly, it took my breath away, almost speechless that I could be a part of FB, instead of being given whatever management wants to give me. Honestly, I'm not sure how it would look. I imagine it might feel different. I imagine I might feel a little more hopeful, instead of so helpless. A little more calm, less filled with dread. I imagine I might feel a little more relaxed, believing I have some say in a safety valve to keep the platform going, in case some leader takes it in a direction that most of us don't want. I don't know if I'd even want direct democracy, where we users vote on feature prioritization and other nitty-gritty details, I may like some type of representative democracy. I don't know. It may not look different but maybe it would feel different. Does that make any sense?
  - cmoscoso 5y ago
    With all due respect, that sounds like Stockholm syndrome to me. If Facebook makes you feel "helpless" and "filled with dread", then probably the most empowering choice is to stop using Facebook.
    - jimkleiber 5y ago
      I'm pretty sure Stockholm Syndrome is when one falls in love with their hostage taker, which sounds pretty different than me feeling distance or animosity towards Facebook. Fair point in that it may not be so healthy for me to stay, although leaving also has its strong downsides, which may contribute to this feeling of helplessness, and yet I'm almost certain it's not Stockholm syndrome. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

cratermoon 5y ago

No, you're not the customer. You're the product. The customers are ad-buying corporations and data-hungry advocacy organizations.

smolder 5y ago

Yeah, that's the same as how if I don't like the country I was born in, I can make a raft and take off into the ocean to be a citizen of nothing. It might seem like a hyperbolic analogy, but it's a matter of degrees. Network effects are powerful.