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Changing a definition of a word is a big ask. As wbazant wrote, hacking has originally started as describing computer crime. The scales for what was considered

Changing a definition of a word is a big ask. As wbazant wrote, hacking has originally started as describing computer crime. The scales for what was considered computer crime has shifted quite a bit in addition to the term itself expanding. Many of us deal with this by inferring what is meant by context. I've been surrounded by hackers, and none of them caught legal or social flack for being called a hacker in public. I also don't see people getting turned off from doing computer security or other computer work because of hacking being used to describe computer crime.

kragen 5y ago
Many Jewish people in Hungary, Germany, and Poland could say the same in 01880 and even in 01920: "I've been surrounded by Jews, and none of them caught legal or social flack for being called a Jew in public." Don't say I didn't warn you. I'm not clear what "hacking has originally started as describing computer crime" is supposed to mean, but "hacking" in the sense of "finding clever ways to surpass what was thought to be possible" goes back to the 01960s, while its "computer crime" meaning was created by journalists and then Hollywood in the 01980s, after Steven Levy's book "Hackers". They did this because they despised and distrusted the kind of people described in the book, us, and projected their greatest fears about computers onto us. It's not impossible to get people to stop using a group identity term in a derogatory sense. "Gay" is, perhaps, commonly used in US high schools to mean "contemptible", and "jew" in some parts of the US is still used to mean "negotiate an unfair business deal", but no US newspaper would dare to use either term that way today. If we value our lives, we need to force them to treat "hacker" in the same way.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  Why'd you put a leading 0 on every year?
  - seoaeu 5y ago
    Probably related to https://longnow.org/ https://longnow.org/
    - josephcsible 5y ago
      Hmm, that still seems like a silly practice. The custom today isn't 4 digit years anyway; it's whatever number of digits you need and no more. For example, we say Vesuvius erupted in AD 79, not AD 0079. We'll naturally switch to 5-digit years in the year 10000 that way without needing to put a leading 0 on every year in the meantime. And 5 digits seems arbitrary anyway: what happens in the year 100000?
      - rhn_mk1 5y ago
        > what happens in the year 100000 We'll think about it when we get there :)
- Aicy 5y ago
  It's been a while since I've seen Godwin's law in the wild.
bryanrasmussen 5y ago
>As wbazant wrote, hacking has originally started as describing computer crime. no they said it has been used for a while now, not was originally used. The problem is that both uses have existed concurrently and it can be annoying to people who believe themselves to be a member of the non-criminal set of hackers. It can also be annoying when you can't tell from context what it should mean, I guess being on HN I kept thinking - but it should be "Is Agriculture the next struggle for Hacking?" because I didn't think the criminal usage would prevail here.

kragen 5y ago

Many Jewish people in Hungary, Germany, and Poland could say the same in 01880 and even in 01920: "I've been surrounded by Jews, and none of them caught legal or social flack for being called a Jew in public." Don't say I didn't warn you. I'm not clear what "hacking has originally started as describing computer crime" is supposed to mean, but "hacking" in the sense of "finding clever ways to surpass what was thought to be possible" goes back to the 01960s, while its "computer crime" meaning was created by journalists and then Hollywood in the 01980s, after Steven Levy's book "Hackers". They did this because they despised and distrusted the kind of people described in the book, us, and projected their greatest fears about computers onto us. It's not impossible to get people to stop using a group identity term in a derogatory sense. "Gay" is, perhaps, commonly used in US high schools to mean "contemptible", and "jew" in some parts of the US is still used to mean "negotiate an unfair business deal", but no US newspaper would dare to use either term that way today. If we value our lives, we need to force them to treat "hacker" in the same way.

josephcsible 5y ago
Why'd you put a leading 0 on every year?
- seoaeu 5y ago
  Probably related to https://longnow.org/ https://longnow.org/
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    Hmm, that still seems like a silly practice. The custom today isn't 4 digit years anyway; it's whatever number of digits you need and no more. For example, we say Vesuvius erupted in AD 79, not AD 0079. We'll naturally switch to 5-digit years in the year 10000 that way without needing to put a leading 0 on every year in the meantime. And 5 digits seems arbitrary anyway: what happens in the year 100000?
    - rhn_mk1 5y ago
      > what happens in the year 100000 We'll think about it when we get there :)
Aicy 5y ago
It's been a while since I've seen Godwin's law in the wild.

bryanrasmussen 5y ago

>As wbazant wrote, hacking has originally started as describing computer crime. no they said it has been used for a while now, not was originally used. The problem is that both uses have existed concurrently and it can be annoying to people who believe themselves to be a member of the non-criminal set of hackers. It can also be annoying when you can't tell from context what it should mean, I guess being on HN I kept thinking - but it should be "Is Agriculture the next struggle for Hacking?" because I didn't think the criminal usage would prevail here.