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It is irresponsible for Tesla to market something as "autopilot" when it definitely isn't that. Telsa is the one trying to have it both ways (selling something

It is irresponsible for Tesla to market something as "autopilot" when it definitely isn't that. Telsa is the one trying to have it both ways (selling something by giving the impression that it offers full "autopilot" performance, then passing the buck back to the driver when anything goes wrong).

heavyset_go 5y ago
For reference, Tesla's marketing[1] is clear about what they mean when they say "Autopilot" and "Full Self-Driving": > The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself. [1] https://www.tesla.com/videos/autopilot-self-driving-hardware-neighborhood-long?redirect=no https://www.tesla.com/videos/autopilot-self-driving-hardware...
- josephcsible 5y ago
  They're saying that in those videos, the driver didn't need to provide any inputs to the car. They didn't say that you never will, or that he didn't have to pay attention and be ready to.
  - sidibe 5y ago
    There is absolutely no excuse for using that video to market Autopilot/FSD (it's still the main feature on tesla.com/autopilot). The driver is clearly not just there for legal reasons. Given that the video is a few years old and FSD beta is still screwing up every couple minutes in the most recent Youtube videos, that driver probably bailed it out in many bad takes before they got this one.
c7DJTLrn 5y ago
I agree with you, but Tesla are very clear that the person in the driver's seat is 100% responsible for the vehicle when Autopilot is active. Until the law catches up with innovation, that will continue to be the case. Most planes today can land themselves, yet pilots still often land manually to keep their attention and skills sharp. Tesla drivers which make use of Autopilot should consider doing the same -- since ultimately it's their ass on the line for now.
- falcolas 5y ago
  Aircraft pilots - especially those who fly jets with auto-landing features - are exceptionally well trained and paid to keep that attention and skill sharp. And that’s not counting their backup - the co-pilots - who are typically just as well trained and compensated as the lead pilots. I highly doubt Tesla will start putting drivers through several hundreds of hours of training every year (let alone pay them 6/7 figure salaries) to have properly safe and trained drivers in their cars.
  - userbinator 5y ago
    The other thing that people who bring up the aviation analogy don't often mention is the difference in scale of reaction times when flying in an aircraft; they are moving much faster, but the distance between them (and the ground below) is also much higher, more than proportional to cars; when the autopilot disconnects, there is at least a few seconds to react to the situation. In a car, reaction/handover times to avoid a collision are sub-second.
- LilBytes 5y ago
  Like one of the GP comments said, >* "Your brain cannot turn off habituation' The entire argument falls apart, and quickly. If the statement 'its the drivers responsibility' relies on us completely ignoring human behaviours and patterns. People are falliable, and encouraging people to not concentrate and put trust into auto-pilot, and knowing with every kilometre travelled. People concentrate less and less. Who is at fault when the car misbehaves and breaks away from expected behaviours?
  - mkr-hn 5y ago
    Habituation is even a problem in ordinary cars. There's a word for it: highway hypnosis. First identified 100 years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_hypnosis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_hypnosis
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  > I agree with you, but Tesla are very clear that the person in the driver's seat is 100% responsible for the vehicle when Autopilot is active. So when Tesla says[1]: > The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself. The "legal reason" for having a person in the driver seat is so that they can act as a liability shield for Tesla? [1] https://www.tesla.com/videos/autopilot-self-driving-hardware-neighborhood-long https://www.tesla.com/videos/autopilot-self-driving-hardware...
Ekaros 5y ago
I'm not against calling Tesla's system autopilot. In the end autopilot in reality is dumb system. Cruise control is also an autopilot, so is lane assist. Problem comes when people think autopilot is actually smart, when it really only does pretty basic things... Selling FSD however is pure scam.
- chucksta 5y ago
  Thats a pretty loose definition of autopilot; >noun: automatic pilot; plural noun: automatic pilots a device for keeping an aircraft on a set course without the intervention of the pilot. Cruise control only maintains velocity, lane assist still requires interventions when turns need to be made or lines are unclear. That sounds like intervention to me "without the intervention of the pilot" is a pretty pivotal part of everyone else's understanding of the word.
josephcsible 5y ago
Do you agree with these two statements? 1. The feature marketed as "autopilot" on airliners is accurately named 2. The human pilots of airliners need to keep paying attention even when autopilot is active Isn't that exactly analogous to how it works in a Tesla? Why do you then say "it definitely isn't that"?

heavyset_go 5y ago

For reference, Tesla's marketing[1] is clear about what they mean when they say "Autopilot" and "Full Self-Driving": > The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself. [1] https://www.tesla.com/videos/autopilot-self-driving-hardware-neighborhood-long?redirect=no https://www.tesla.com/videos/autopilot-self-driving-hardware...

josephcsible 5y ago
They're saying that in those videos, the driver didn't need to provide any inputs to the car. They didn't say that you never will, or that he didn't have to pay attention and be ready to.
- sidibe 5y ago
  There is absolutely no excuse for using that video to market Autopilot/FSD (it's still the main feature on tesla.com/autopilot). The driver is clearly not just there for legal reasons. Given that the video is a few years old and FSD beta is still screwing up every couple minutes in the most recent Youtube videos, that driver probably bailed it out in many bad takes before they got this one.

c7DJTLrn 5y ago

I agree with you, but Tesla are very clear that the person in the driver's seat is 100% responsible for the vehicle when Autopilot is active. Until the law catches up with innovation, that will continue to be the case. Most planes today can land themselves, yet pilots still often land manually to keep their attention and skills sharp. Tesla drivers which make use of Autopilot should consider doing the same -- since ultimately it's their ass on the line for now.

falcolas 5y ago
Aircraft pilots - especially those who fly jets with auto-landing features - are exceptionally well trained and paid to keep that attention and skill sharp. And that’s not counting their backup - the co-pilots - who are typically just as well trained and compensated as the lead pilots. I highly doubt Tesla will start putting drivers through several hundreds of hours of training every year (let alone pay them 6/7 figure salaries) to have properly safe and trained drivers in their cars.
- userbinator 5y ago
  The other thing that people who bring up the aviation analogy don't often mention is the difference in scale of reaction times when flying in an aircraft; they are moving much faster, but the distance between them (and the ground below) is also much higher, more than proportional to cars; when the autopilot disconnects, there is at least a few seconds to react to the situation. In a car, reaction/handover times to avoid a collision are sub-second.
LilBytes 5y ago
Like one of the GP comments said, >* "Your brain cannot turn off habituation' The entire argument falls apart, and quickly. If the statement 'its the drivers responsibility' relies on us completely ignoring human behaviours and patterns. People are falliable, and encouraging people to not concentrate and put trust into auto-pilot, and knowing with every kilometre travelled. People concentrate less and less. Who is at fault when the car misbehaves and breaks away from expected behaviours?
- mkr-hn 5y ago
  Habituation is even a problem in ordinary cars. There's a word for it: highway hypnosis. First identified 100 years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_hypnosis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_hypnosis
heavyset_go 5y ago
> I agree with you, but Tesla are very clear that the person in the driver's seat is 100% responsible for the vehicle when Autopilot is active. So when Tesla says[1]: > The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself. The "legal reason" for having a person in the driver seat is so that they can act as a liability shield for Tesla? [1] https://www.tesla.com/videos/autopilot-self-driving-hardware-neighborhood-long https://www.tesla.com/videos/autopilot-self-driving-hardware...

Ekaros 5y ago

I'm not against calling Tesla's system autopilot. In the end autopilot in reality is dumb system. Cruise control is also an autopilot, so is lane assist. Problem comes when people think autopilot is actually smart, when it really only does pretty basic things... Selling FSD however is pure scam.

chucksta 5y ago
Thats a pretty loose definition of autopilot; >noun: automatic pilot; plural noun: automatic pilots a device for keeping an aircraft on a set course without the intervention of the pilot. Cruise control only maintains velocity, lane assist still requires interventions when turns need to be made or lines are unclear. That sounds like intervention to me "without the intervention of the pilot" is a pretty pivotal part of everyone else's understanding of the word.

josephcsible 5y ago

Do you agree with these two statements? 1. The feature marketed as "autopilot" on airliners is accurately named 2. The human pilots of airliners need to keep paying attention even when autopilot is active Isn't that exactly analogous to how it works in a Tesla? Why do you then say "it definitely isn't that"?