4 ms·

Stopping gives the police officer a chance to find something else

danenania 5y ago
Yeah that's what happens in practice, but it's not a good use of police resources. Road policing should be focused on keeping the roads safe, not fishing for unrelated crimes. The cost-benefit for society and the police on these stops is terrible.
- 0x737368 5y ago
  I don't understand what you're saying - say someone has a busted headlight or is speeding. Police stop the car, which gives them a chance to talk to the person and let them know what's the problem. If it's their headlight - maybe a warning given that the driver promises to change their headlight. If they're speeding the cop can ascertain if the driver is for example sober or not. By this stop the road is indeed policed to be safer. The being able to stop a serious criminal is just a bonus.
  - danenania 5y ago
    The same safety benefit, without the risk, could be accomplished using some kind of signal with the sirens for "you're getting a ticket", sending a ticket in the mail, and logging it in a database somewhere so the person can look up why they got fined. Warnings could be done in the same way. If someone is impaired enough to be driving dangerously, police will notice that and should pull them over. I'm talking about the minor infractions which (I presume) make up the majority of stops.
    - 0x737368 5y ago
      Surely you can't believe that this will be as effective as stopping someone...
colechristensen 5y ago
And with the frequency with which police find unregistered guns locally making traffic stops, I fully support this. It baffles me the repeated efforts locally to "reform" policing involve stopping these kinds of police activities to seem more fair or something... Don't get me wrong there are some really shady tactics in this realm police do use and having the job biases you towards certain assumptions, but still. Criminals are stupid, please keep giving them the opportunity to give themselves up by speeding in unregistered cars, etc.
- danenania 5y ago
  It's not worth it when you have both innocent people and cops themselves frequently getting killed as a result. There are plenty of other ways to catch stupid criminals that don't carry the same risks. These practices also create a generally high level of fear and animosity toward police which isn't good for anyone.
  - colechristensen 5y ago
    If it's a numbers game, what are the numbers that make it worth it or not? "worth it" judgements shouldn't be made about what numbers justify other numbers if you aren't ready to have a priori numbers ready (as opposed to saying "this isn't justified because statistics" after the fact).
    - danenania 5y ago
      It’s not a numbers game at all. On one side you have actual innocent people (and cops) who are killed, assaulted, traumatized. On the other side, in the best case scenario, you are maybe preventing a hypothetical crime that maybe causes someone harm—and even that could have potentially been prevented through other means without the bad externalities. It’s a stupid trade.
      - colechristensen 5y ago
        >It's not worth it when you have both innocent people and cops themselves frequently getting killed as a result. There are plenty of other ways to catch stupid criminals that don't carry the same risks. "worth it", "frequently", "risks" These are all numerical arguments but you're claiming it isn't about numbers. Set a value for risk and reward and drive for that policy. Don't make vague arguments that lean on statistics when it feels useful but refuse to say when something is worth it. What I see is kids getting shot in the street and my neighbors mugged and carjacked and police picking up guns in routine traffic stops. I don't think those are very "hypothetical".

Yeah that's what happens in practice, but it's not a good use of police resources. Road policing should be focused on keeping the roads safe, not fishing for unrelated crimes. The cost-benefit for society and the police on these stops is terrible.

0x737368 5y ago
I don't understand what you're saying - say someone has a busted headlight or is speeding. Police stop the car, which gives them a chance to talk to the person and let them know what's the problem. If it's their headlight - maybe a warning given that the driver promises to change their headlight. If they're speeding the cop can ascertain if the driver is for example sober or not. By this stop the road is indeed policed to be safer. The being able to stop a serious criminal is just a bonus.
- danenania 5y ago
  The same safety benefit, without the risk, could be accomplished using some kind of signal with the sirens for "you're getting a ticket", sending a ticket in the mail, and logging it in a database somewhere so the person can look up why they got fined. Warnings could be done in the same way. If someone is impaired enough to be driving dangerously, police will notice that and should pull them over. I'm talking about the minor infractions which (I presume) make up the majority of stops.
  - 0x737368 5y ago
    Surely you can't believe that this will be as effective as stopping someone...

colechristensen 5y ago

And with the frequency with which police find unregistered guns locally making traffic stops, I fully support this. It baffles me the repeated efforts locally to "reform" policing involve stopping these kinds of police activities to seem more fair or something... Don't get me wrong there are some really shady tactics in this realm police do use and having the job biases you towards certain assumptions, but still. Criminals are stupid, please keep giving them the opportunity to give themselves up by speeding in unregistered cars, etc.

danenania 5y ago
It's not worth it when you have both innocent people and cops themselves frequently getting killed as a result. There are plenty of other ways to catch stupid criminals that don't carry the same risks. These practices also create a generally high level of fear and animosity toward police which isn't good for anyone.
- colechristensen 5y ago
  If it's a numbers game, what are the numbers that make it worth it or not? "worth it" judgements shouldn't be made about what numbers justify other numbers if you aren't ready to have a priori numbers ready (as opposed to saying "this isn't justified because statistics" after the fact).
  - danenania 5y ago
    It’s not a numbers game at all. On one side you have actual innocent people (and cops) who are killed, assaulted, traumatized. On the other side, in the best case scenario, you are maybe preventing a hypothetical crime that maybe causes someone harm—and even that could have potentially been prevented through other means without the bad externalities. It’s a stupid trade.
    - colechristensen 5y ago
      >It's not worth it when you have both innocent people and cops themselves frequently getting killed as a result. There are plenty of other ways to catch stupid criminals that don't carry the same risks. "worth it", "frequently", "risks" These are all numerical arguments but you're claiming it isn't about numbers. Set a value for risk and reward and drive for that policy. Don't make vague arguments that lean on statistics when it feels useful but refuse to say when something is worth it. What I see is kids getting shot in the street and my neighbors mugged and carjacked and police picking up guns in routine traffic stops. I don't think those are very "hypothetical".