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We probably won't kill cancer through one miracle cure, but probably through death by a thousand cuts. That and we probably need to repair the immune system. T

by kiba 5y ago

We probably won't kill cancer through one miracle cure, but probably through death by a thousand cuts. That and we probably need to repair the immune system. The incident of cancer increases with age, after all.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
How do you improve the immune system to convey the improvements we’ve made with mRNA to it?
- jcims 5y ago
  We haven't really made any improvements to the immune system with mRNA, we're just giving it some training film to be ready when the fight comes. An immune system that has a hair trigger to new antigens would likely cause more problems than it solves. Some kind of ability to have contagious antibodies might be an actual improvement but the fact that we don't see that in nature tells me it has downsides that are difficult to see.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - KMag 5y ago
    > Some kind of ability to have contagious antibodies might be an actual improvement but the fact that we don't see that in nature tells me it has downsides that are difficult to see. My biology education is a bit weak, but off the top of my head, autoimmunity being contagious sounds like a likely side-effect of contagious antibodies.
- tiborsaas 5y ago
  We could sample the actual cancer in the patient and custom print an mRNA cure to that specific person for maximum accuracy. The Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine was created in hours after Covid was sequenced. So this might not be a too far fetched idea.
  - DrAwdeOccarim 5y ago
    Easier said than done, but yes most mRNA companies are trying the non-personalized and personalized cancer vaccine idea. The issue is the immune system is held back, like a big bouncer holding you back in a fight. Checkpoint inhibitors remove that bouncer, but now you're drunk and throwing fists all over the place, hitting both your friends, the bouncer, and the hooligans at the same time...
cameronh90 5y ago
I believe, as you hint towards, that the ultimate way to reduce cancer risk is to cure ageing. Most cancers are rare in your 20s and 30s, then get dramatically more common every year after from your mid 40s roughly. To me, this suggests that the mechanisms that stop you getting cancer (and your body/DNA repairing in general) are themselves failing. Of course, if everyone was 25 forever we'd still all eventually die of cancer, but it would take a lot longer than the current state of affairs.
vmception 5y ago
The incidence of errors occurring and the incidence of error correction failing increases over time I think that has much less to do with the immune system, although I think that can be a factor too It’s just probability from a flawed replication process
DoreenMichele 5y ago
Death by a thousand cuts is vastly saner than "Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure." when your body is the battlefield. But most people don't really want to hear that. We hear "big, scary death label disease" and we want someone to promise they can nuke it from orbit. No one wants to hear that we need to care for the body and foster its health while battling this "demon."

by kiba 5y ago

toomuchtodo 5y ago

How do you improve the immune system to convey the improvements we’ve made with mRNA to it?

jcims 5y ago
We haven't really made any improvements to the immune system with mRNA, we're just giving it some training film to be ready when the fight comes. An immune system that has a hair trigger to new antigens would likely cause more problems than it solves. Some kind of ability to have contagious antibodies might be an actual improvement but the fact that we don't see that in nature tells me it has downsides that are difficult to see.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- KMag 5y ago
  > Some kind of ability to have contagious antibodies might be an actual improvement but the fact that we don't see that in nature tells me it has downsides that are difficult to see. My biology education is a bit weak, but off the top of my head, autoimmunity being contagious sounds like a likely side-effect of contagious antibodies.
tiborsaas 5y ago
We could sample the actual cancer in the patient and custom print an mRNA cure to that specific person for maximum accuracy. The Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine was created in hours after Covid was sequenced. So this might not be a too far fetched idea.
- DrAwdeOccarim 5y ago
  Easier said than done, but yes most mRNA companies are trying the non-personalized and personalized cancer vaccine idea. The issue is the immune system is held back, like a big bouncer holding you back in a fight. Checkpoint inhibitors remove that bouncer, but now you're drunk and throwing fists all over the place, hitting both your friends, the bouncer, and the hooligans at the same time...

cameronh90 5y ago

I believe, as you hint towards, that the ultimate way to reduce cancer risk is to cure ageing. Most cancers are rare in your 20s and 30s, then get dramatically more common every year after from your mid 40s roughly. To me, this suggests that the mechanisms that stop you getting cancer (and your body/DNA repairing in general) are themselves failing. Of course, if everyone was 25 forever we'd still all eventually die of cancer, but it would take a lot longer than the current state of affairs.

vmception 5y ago

The incidence of errors occurring and the incidence of error correction failing increases over time I think that has much less to do with the immune system, although I think that can be a factor too It’s just probability from a flawed replication process

DoreenMichele 5y ago

Death by a thousand cuts is vastly saner than "Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure." when your body is the battlefield. But most people don't really want to hear that. We hear "big, scary death label disease" and we want someone to promise they can nuke it from orbit. No one wants to hear that we need to care for the body and foster its health while battling this "demon."