5 ms·

Woah, in the US that’d likely you get killed regardless of skin color. Any UK folks around to comment on whether this advice is actually usable there?

tonylemesmer 5y ago
It would probably be fine as long as you do it calmly and don’t make any crazy sudden moves. The current climate would make it even easier. But I’m not a habitual law breaker so not really into running away from cops. By ‘running away’ I take that to mean move yourself calmly to a more public / busier area rather than obviously trying to disappear into the night. Edit [I’m from the UK and offering a UK perspective. I have been accosted calmly by UK police and I have UK friends who are officers.]
- BoorishBears 5y ago
  A pregnant woman had her car flipped with a (horribly performed) PIT maneuver after she tried to make it to an exit before pulling over.
- woodruffw 5y ago
  “Running away” is itself the rough opposite of “do[ing] it calmly and [not making] any crazy sudden moves,” at least in the eyes of the police. The idea that you can “calmly” run away from a rogue cop isn’t compatible with their expectations.
  - tonylemesmer 5y ago
    You can communicate with them as you’re doing it you know. You can shout or wave to let them know you’re aware they’re cops etc. English police and USA police are not the same.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- lovich 5y ago
  If you’re in the US at least then you are pretty much guaranteed to be a daily, habitual law breaker. You just don’t habitually get the law enforced on you
- tonylemesmer 5y ago
  People disagreeing with my comment should realise I’m not saying that anything you could do would save you from the fate that Sarah Everard suffered. A determined rogue cop can still kill you. Anyone can kill you. The Met’s advice isn’t helpful. But moving to a busier area as briskly and unprovocatively as possible could save you.
  - lovich 5y ago
    I’m again speaking from a US perspective but there is no situation here where moving away from the police is not considered provocative from their viewpoint. I would fully expect to be choked, body slammed, and cuffed if I attempted to walk away from the cops. I live in a fairly affluent area and am not a minority and still have seen local cops do things like start screaming at people for not maintaining eye contact, or in a particular notable event an off duty not in uniform cop who ran a car off the road and pulled a gun on them for not giving them right of way in a traffic circle. If you have cops that would let you move to a safer location after they interact with you, it’s nearly unbelievable from our experiences
    - kawsper 5y ago
      There's was a deaf man in the US that got shocked with electroshock weapon for not responding to officers, https://www.npr.org/2021/09/29/1041562502/deaf-man-tased-police-colorado-lawsuit https://www.npr.org/2021/09/29/1041562502/deaf-man-tased-pol...
- tokai 5y ago
  Even that can be deadly. One screw up in a game of Simon Says with an unhinged cop and you're dead. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver
r3trohack3r 5y ago
At least in my home town (central Illinois), our drivers education instructor actually taught this. If you’re being pulled over in podunk nowhere, turn on your hazards, reduce your speed, and proceed to the next well populated area (I.e. gas station).
- droidist2 5y ago
  I always was told this too but I've never had the courage to actually do it. I'd be afraid the cop would be angry and treat me more harshly when I finally do pull over. There was recently a case of a pregnant woman doing this and the police performed a PIT maneuver and flipped her car. https://www.news10.com/news/national/pregnant-woman-sues-arkansas-police-over-pit-maneuver-flips-car/ https://www.news10.com/news/national/pregnant-woman-sues-ark...
jazzyjackson 5y ago
I think there’s a specific condition where this advice applies, FTA: "It would be extremely unusual for an officer in plain clothes to be working alone. If they are, they should be calling for assistance with other officers arriving very soon. This is standard practice.” So, don’t run away from uniformed officers, don’t run away from multiple officers. To your point, I’m reminded of Nicole Harper, whose vehicle was flipped by an officer’s pit maneuver as she continued down the road lookong for a safe place to pull off the highway, hazards flashing, just as the police department’s own “drivers license study guide” advises. https://jalopnik.com/cop-flips-pregnant-womans-while-she-tries-to-pull-over-1847062704 https://jalopnik.com/cop-flips-pregnant-womans-while-she-tri...
willyt 5y ago
For a well dressed white person it would be sensible advice but I’m not so sure how well it would pan out for a black guy at 3am in Tottenham or even a white kid in a shell suit in Castlemilk for that matter. You almost certainly wouldn’t be killed, but you probably would get chased and tackled to the ground and it would be up to the interpretation of the police officer, prosecutor and ultimately judge or jury as to wether it was a reasonable thing for you to do or if you were just trying to use the Everard case as an excuse.
hnlmorg 5y ago
I've found police in the UK are generally harder to provoke than in the US. However it only takes one bad cop having a bad day for things to go sideways fast. At risk of sparking a controversy, I do think the UKs tighter gun control laws help. It means fewer people are carrying guns and thus fewer officers need to be armed. Sure, there's still the other deterrents -- which can be nasty too. But guns can causes a situation to escalate so much faster so mostly removing that from the equation must help matters.

tonylemesmer 5y ago

It would probably be fine as long as you do it calmly and don’t make any crazy sudden moves. The current climate would make it even easier. But I’m not a habitual law breaker so not really into running away from cops. By ‘running away’ I take that to mean move yourself calmly to a more public / busier area rather than obviously trying to disappear into the night. Edit [I’m from the UK and offering a UK perspective. I have been accosted calmly by UK police and I have UK friends who are officers.]

BoorishBears 5y ago
A pregnant woman had her car flipped with a (horribly performed) PIT maneuver after she tried to make it to an exit before pulling over.
woodruffw 5y ago
“Running away” is itself the rough opposite of “do[ing] it calmly and [not making] any crazy sudden moves,” at least in the eyes of the police. The idea that you can “calmly” run away from a rogue cop isn’t compatible with their expectations.
- tonylemesmer 5y ago
  You can communicate with them as you’re doing it you know. You can shout or wave to let them know you’re aware they’re cops etc. English police and USA police are not the same.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
lovich 5y ago
If you’re in the US at least then you are pretty much guaranteed to be a daily, habitual law breaker. You just don’t habitually get the law enforced on you
tonylemesmer 5y ago
People disagreeing with my comment should realise I’m not saying that anything you could do would save you from the fate that Sarah Everard suffered. A determined rogue cop can still kill you. Anyone can kill you. The Met’s advice isn’t helpful. But moving to a busier area as briskly and unprovocatively as possible could save you.
- lovich 5y ago
  I’m again speaking from a US perspective but there is no situation here where moving away from the police is not considered provocative from their viewpoint. I would fully expect to be choked, body slammed, and cuffed if I attempted to walk away from the cops. I live in a fairly affluent area and am not a minority and still have seen local cops do things like start screaming at people for not maintaining eye contact, or in a particular notable event an off duty not in uniform cop who ran a car off the road and pulled a gun on them for not giving them right of way in a traffic circle. If you have cops that would let you move to a safer location after they interact with you, it’s nearly unbelievable from our experiences
  - kawsper 5y ago
    There's was a deaf man in the US that got shocked with electroshock weapon for not responding to officers, https://www.npr.org/2021/09/29/1041562502/deaf-man-tased-police-colorado-lawsuit https://www.npr.org/2021/09/29/1041562502/deaf-man-tased-pol...
tokai 5y ago
Even that can be deadly. One screw up in a game of Simon Says with an unhinged cop and you're dead. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver

r3trohack3r 5y ago

At least in my home town (central Illinois), our drivers education instructor actually taught this. If you’re being pulled over in podunk nowhere, turn on your hazards, reduce your speed, and proceed to the next well populated area (I.e. gas station).

droidist2 5y ago
I always was told this too but I've never had the courage to actually do it. I'd be afraid the cop would be angry and treat me more harshly when I finally do pull over. There was recently a case of a pregnant woman doing this and the police performed a PIT maneuver and flipped her car. https://www.news10.com/news/national/pregnant-woman-sues-arkansas-police-over-pit-maneuver-flips-car/ https://www.news10.com/news/national/pregnant-woman-sues-ark...

jazzyjackson 5y ago

I think there’s a specific condition where this advice applies, FTA: "It would be extremely unusual for an officer in plain clothes to be working alone. If they are, they should be calling for assistance with other officers arriving very soon. This is standard practice.” So, don’t run away from uniformed officers, don’t run away from multiple officers. To your point, I’m reminded of Nicole Harper, whose vehicle was flipped by an officer’s pit maneuver as she continued down the road lookong for a safe place to pull off the highway, hazards flashing, just as the police department’s own “drivers license study guide” advises. https://jalopnik.com/cop-flips-pregnant-womans-while-she-tries-to-pull-over-1847062704 https://jalopnik.com/cop-flips-pregnant-womans-while-she-tri...

willyt 5y ago

For a well dressed white person it would be sensible advice but I’m not so sure how well it would pan out for a black guy at 3am in Tottenham or even a white kid in a shell suit in Castlemilk for that matter. You almost certainly wouldn’t be killed, but you probably would get chased and tackled to the ground and it would be up to the interpretation of the police officer, prosecutor and ultimately judge or jury as to wether it was a reasonable thing for you to do or if you were just trying to use the Everard case as an excuse.

hnlmorg 5y ago

I've found police in the UK are generally harder to provoke than in the US. However it only takes one bad cop having a bad day for things to go sideways fast. At risk of sparking a controversy, I do think the UKs tighter gun control laws help. It means fewer people are carrying guns and thus fewer officers need to be armed. Sure, there's still the other deterrents -- which can be nasty too. But guns can causes a situation to escalate so much faster so mostly removing that from the equation must help matters.