4 ms·

Open source radios are the first step to privacy. We need to be able to choose the towers we connect to.

gruez 5y ago
>We need to be able to choose the towers we connect to. How does that help? If you do that the best you can do is obfuscate your location by a mile.
- DSingularity 5y ago
  That’s pretty good
- secondcoming 5y ago
  When Google does share location information with advertisers it is obfuscated to approx this range.
  - carlhjerpe 5y ago
    My personal understanding of this...... Show is that they never share my actual data but rather allow advertisers to target me based on these parameters, and if the advertiser is specific enough and get me to click I could potentially be identified by the ad. Please prove me right.
    - toast0 5y ago
      For graphical ads, typically the advertiser can include beacons which can indicate membership in the targeted group, the same as a click. No interaction needed.
- robbedpeter 5y ago
  A trustless model in which the tower can provide a connection, know the relevant endpoint location on the tower hardware only, and prevent any access to that data except to law enforcement with a valid warrant. Providers don't need location data. Put in place lethal penalties for violating data privacy - if a company is caught harvesting data outside legal limits, they get fined into oblivion, and the money is split between victims and enforcement. Being a service provider shouldn't mean an unlimited license to spy on your customers. Being a big corporation shouldn't mean you get to ignore the rules applied to individuals. We need better laws, and we need to exclude megacorps and megamoney from the legislative process.
  - gruez 5y ago
    >A trustless model in which the tower can provide a connection, know the relevant endpoint location on the tower hardware only but doesn't that mean you can still pinpoint people at the cell level? With cells being smaller in 5g networks, the problem is going to get worse.
    - robbedpeter 5y ago
      Yes, so make it illegal for providers to send location data anywhere other than the tower hardware, and make it corporate suicide to collect the data, except at the individual level with a specific warrant.
      - throwaway210222 5y ago
        > Make it illegal for providers to send location data anywhere other than the tower hardware. The entire planet's mobile telephone system would then stop working. As far back as GSM, your approximate location is continually updated in the HLR/HSS database (and VLR) so the the system knows where to send the MAP SS7 paging message to tell your phone to ring when someone calls you (or where to deliver a SMS). Its a mobile network - it needs to know where you are.
the_only_law 5y ago
I've had fleeting interests in this area for a while now, but for a number of reasons have never managed to do much in it. The standards are all open right, for modern mobile networks. Every time I see this topic come up there seems to be something about patents and entrenched oligopolies (i.e with Qualcomm). Is there any legal or IP issues raised from making open source modems for LTE/4G/5G/whatever networks.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  Hardware isn't the problem, spectrum licences are the issue
throwawayboise 5y ago
If you're really worried about this the only thing you can really do is not carry a phone, or carry one with a hardware radio switch and only turn it on when you want to use it. Of course you won't receive calls or messages, but that's not the end of the world, it's just like going back to the 1980s.
- seanp2k2 5y ago
  RFID blocking pocket is another option, or rotate prepaid cellphones every week or so. Neither is very convenient.
Gigachad 5y ago
The _only_ possible solution to this problem is government regulation. An open source radio on your phone does literally nothing when the phone networks are all hostile.
- Consultant32452 5y ago
  Government regulation created your lack of options. These are the people who have been giving literally trillions of dollars to the wealthy in their spending bills. What would they have to do to convince you they are not going to help you?
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    It's always regulation to blame to some folks. If only we could have more 'free market' somehow companies would no longer spy on their customers.
    - Consultant32452 5y ago
      I suggest you keep trying the same thing you've been trying to see if you can get some different results.
    - eurasiantiger 5y ago
      There’s regulation to protect human life, and then there’s regulation to protect business interests. The ”free market” advocates claim that the former are anti-competitive while they try their best to have the latter enacted.
      - Consultant32452 5y ago
        You’re replying to a thread that disproves you. It's possible for the state and big business to both be your enemy. In a country like the USA where big business owns the government that's often the case.

>We need to be able to choose the towers we connect to. How does that help? If you do that the best you can do is obfuscate your location by a mile.

DSingularity 5y ago
That’s pretty good
secondcoming 5y ago
When Google does share location information with advertisers it is obfuscated to approx this range.
- carlhjerpe 5y ago
  My personal understanding of this...... Show is that they never share my actual data but rather allow advertisers to target me based on these parameters, and if the advertiser is specific enough and get me to click I could potentially be identified by the ad. Please prove me right.
  - toast0 5y ago
    For graphical ads, typically the advertiser can include beacons which can indicate membership in the targeted group, the same as a click. No interaction needed.
robbedpeter 5y ago
A trustless model in which the tower can provide a connection, know the relevant endpoint location on the tower hardware only, and prevent any access to that data except to law enforcement with a valid warrant. Providers don't need location data. Put in place lethal penalties for violating data privacy - if a company is caught harvesting data outside legal limits, they get fined into oblivion, and the money is split between victims and enforcement. Being a service provider shouldn't mean an unlimited license to spy on your customers. Being a big corporation shouldn't mean you get to ignore the rules applied to individuals. We need better laws, and we need to exclude megacorps and megamoney from the legislative process.
- gruez 5y ago
  >A trustless model in which the tower can provide a connection, know the relevant endpoint location on the tower hardware only but doesn't that mean you can still pinpoint people at the cell level? With cells being smaller in 5g networks, the problem is going to get worse.
  - robbedpeter 5y ago
    Yes, so make it illegal for providers to send location data anywhere other than the tower hardware, and make it corporate suicide to collect the data, except at the individual level with a specific warrant.
    - throwaway210222 5y ago
      > Make it illegal for providers to send location data anywhere other than the tower hardware. The entire planet's mobile telephone system would then stop working. As far back as GSM, your approximate location is continually updated in the HLR/HSS database (and VLR) so the the system knows where to send the MAP SS7 paging message to tell your phone to ring when someone calls you (or where to deliver a SMS). Its a mobile network - it needs to know where you are.

the_only_law 5y ago

I've had fleeting interests in this area for a while now, but for a number of reasons have never managed to do much in it. The standards are all open right, for modern mobile networks. Every time I see this topic come up there seems to be something about patents and entrenched oligopolies (i.e with Qualcomm). Is there any legal or IP issues raised from making open source modems for LTE/4G/5G/whatever networks.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago
Hardware isn't the problem, spectrum licences are the issue

throwawayboise 5y ago

If you're really worried about this the only thing you can really do is not carry a phone, or carry one with a hardware radio switch and only turn it on when you want to use it. Of course you won't receive calls or messages, but that's not the end of the world, it's just like going back to the 1980s.

seanp2k2 5y ago
RFID blocking pocket is another option, or rotate prepaid cellphones every week or so. Neither is very convenient.

Gigachad 5y ago

The _only_ possible solution to this problem is government regulation. An open source radio on your phone does literally nothing when the phone networks are all hostile.

Consultant32452 5y ago
Government regulation created your lack of options. These are the people who have been giving literally trillions of dollars to the wealthy in their spending bills. What would they have to do to convince you they are not going to help you?
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  It's always regulation to blame to some folks. If only we could have more 'free market' somehow companies would no longer spy on their customers.
  - Consultant32452 5y ago
    I suggest you keep trying the same thing you've been trying to see if you can get some different results.
  - eurasiantiger 5y ago
    There’s regulation to protect human life, and then there’s regulation to protect business interests. The ”free market” advocates claim that the former are anti-competitive while they try their best to have the latter enacted.
    - Consultant32452 5y ago
      You’re replying to a thread that disproves you. It's possible for the state and big business to both be your enemy. In a country like the USA where big business owns the government that's often the case.