7 ms·

Conpanies like Nissan have reliable EVs that have been there for a while (the Leaf). However they make more profit selling petrol-powered SUVs, so the dealers d

by mgbmtl 5y ago

Conpanies like Nissan have reliable EVs that have been there for a while (the Leaf). However they make more profit selling petrol-powered SUVs, so the dealers don't promote them. When I tried to buy my Leaf, the sales guy tried to get me to buy another model, and a month after buying the car, I was getting spam for a Pathfinder (monster SUV). I also see a lot of WV e-Golfs on the road, and Chevy Bolts. I don't know how reliable they are (Chevy have battery problems), but I think there definitely is competition.

SkyPuncher 5y ago
My coworker has a leaf, but must keep their high school car around because the leaf doesn't have enough range in the winter. Tesla nairled the excitement factor that nobody else has
dntrkv 5y ago
None of those are competitive with Teslas. Range, performance, comfort, features are all miles ahead in the Tesla. Price may be the only factor they're competitive, but the sales numbers don't lie. Nissan has sold 500k Leafs in the last 10 years. Tesla sold 440k Model 3s in 2020 alone. Also, the EV aspect of Teslas is not the only thing that attracts buyers. I know many here on HN don't realize this, but people love the OTA updates that make your car better over time. Tesla takes a software company approach to cars. I don't have faith in any of the existing manufacturers pulling that off. It's a completely different business model that none of incumbents show any proficiency in.
kiba 5y ago
I thought Nissan Leaf had poor reputation for bad battery management.
jonas21 5y ago
This is the classic innovators dilemma. The established players are afraid to cannibalize their more profitable existing product lines, which presents opportunities for new companies that don't have existing products to cannibalize. That's probably why the markets are betting the way they are. And the Bolt is great. Just make sure not to park within 50 feet of anybody else [1]. [1] https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1133604_gm-asks-chevy-bolt-ev-drivers-to-park-50-feet-from-other-vehicles-due-to-fire-risk https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1133604_gm-asks-chevy-b...
nebula8804 5y ago
>Conpanies like Nissan have reliable EVs that have been there for a while (the Leaf). However they make more profit selling petrol-powered SUVs, so the dealers don't promote them. I recently was looking at purchasing a used Leaf Plus (the new gen) but I was utterly shocked to discover threads on the Leaf subreddit discouraging people from taking long roadtrips on the Leaf because the battery overheats and will reduce the charging speeds. You cannot just go from charge > drive > charge and expect the same speeds. I was about to move from NJ to California and driving across the country :/ Now I am forced to look at the Volt as that is all I can afford. I don't even like this car but I want to get onto at least a semi zero emission platform. The Teslas have tons of problems, (random build quality, poor parts availability, high insurance caused by the above). Someone who wants a reasonably priced EV that they can use under all circumstances as a regular car don't have many options right now.
hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
I'm a Chevy Volt owner, I love that car, and given my driving habits I'm on electric 95+ percent of the time. That said, highlighting the Leaf, e-Golf and Bolt only make the legacy makers look worse in my opinion. I mean, how many times have you heard any of those vehicles be spoken about as "an object of desire". Most people view them as a "good thing" the same way as they view a colonoscopy as a good thing: a wise thing to get but certainly not something you're excited about having. So far in my experience the only legacy automaker that is putting out truly compelling electric vehicles is Ford with the F-150 Lightning and the Mustang Mach-E.
- taurath 5y ago
  OTOH the Prius was never an object of desire, it was more a very economic option that made a lot of sense. None of those EVs are anywhere near in the same class, but one could pop up like that. I think it’s more likely that the market is flooded with mediocre EVs just as it’s currently flooded with mediocre gas vehicles. 2022 and 2023 have things like the f150, Honda Civic, Toyota Camry, and Ford Explorer coming out in EV variants.
  - hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
    > OTOH the Prius was never an object of desire I disagree. It was never an object of desire in the same way Tesla's are, but it was desired in the sense that many made the decision to buy a Prius primarily for social signalling reasons - it became almost cliché that a Prius meant "look how environmentally conscious I am!" This was famously parodied it what was my favorite South Park episode of all time, "Smug Alert".
    - dntrkv 5y ago
      Not only that, but the Prius was practical. Most of the EVs on the market are not. Their range alone makes them a non-starter for most people. The Prius is a pinnacle of practicality. Great gas mileage, reliable as hell, cheap to repair, and it’s a hatchback.
- themihai 5y ago

by mgbmtl 5y ago

SkyPuncher 5y ago

My coworker has a leaf, but must keep their high school car around because the leaf doesn't have enough range in the winter. Tesla nairled the excitement factor that nobody else has

dntrkv 5y ago

None of those are competitive with Teslas. Range, performance, comfort, features are all miles ahead in the Tesla. Price may be the only factor they're competitive, but the sales numbers don't lie. Nissan has sold 500k Leafs in the last 10 years. Tesla sold 440k Model 3s in 2020 alone. Also, the EV aspect of Teslas is not the only thing that attracts buyers. I know many here on HN don't realize this, but people love the OTA updates that make your car better over time. Tesla takes a software company approach to cars. I don't have faith in any of the existing manufacturers pulling that off. It's a completely different business model that none of incumbents show any proficiency in.

kiba 5y ago

I thought Nissan Leaf had poor reputation for bad battery management.

jonas21 5y ago

This is the classic innovators dilemma. The established players are afraid to cannibalize their more profitable existing product lines, which presents opportunities for new companies that don't have existing products to cannibalize. That's probably why the markets are betting the way they are. And the Bolt is great. Just make sure not to park within 50 feet of anybody else [1]. [1] https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1133604_gm-asks-chevy-bolt-ev-drivers-to-park-50-feet-from-other-vehicles-due-to-fire-risk https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1133604_gm-asks-chevy-b...

nebula8804 5y ago

>Conpanies like Nissan have reliable EVs that have been there for a while (the Leaf). However they make more profit selling petrol-powered SUVs, so the dealers don't promote them. I recently was looking at purchasing a used Leaf Plus (the new gen) but I was utterly shocked to discover threads on the Leaf subreddit discouraging people from taking long roadtrips on the Leaf because the battery overheats and will reduce the charging speeds. You cannot just go from charge > drive > charge and expect the same speeds. I was about to move from NJ to California and driving across the country :/ Now I am forced to look at the Volt as that is all I can afford. I don't even like this car but I want to get onto at least a semi zero emission platform. The Teslas have tons of problems, (random build quality, poor parts availability, high insurance caused by the above). Someone who wants a reasonably priced EV that they can use under all circumstances as a regular car don't have many options right now.

hn_throwaway_99 5y ago

I'm a Chevy Volt owner, I love that car, and given my driving habits I'm on electric 95+ percent of the time. That said, highlighting the Leaf, e-Golf and Bolt only make the legacy makers look worse in my opinion. I mean, how many times have you heard any of those vehicles be spoken about as "an object of desire". Most people view them as a "good thing" the same way as they view a colonoscopy as a good thing: a wise thing to get but certainly not something you're excited about having. So far in my experience the only legacy automaker that is putting out truly compelling electric vehicles is Ford with the F-150 Lightning and the Mustang Mach-E.

taurath 5y ago
OTOH the Prius was never an object of desire, it was more a very economic option that made a lot of sense. None of those EVs are anywhere near in the same class, but one could pop up like that. I think it’s more likely that the market is flooded with mediocre EVs just as it’s currently flooded with mediocre gas vehicles. 2022 and 2023 have things like the f150, Honda Civic, Toyota Camry, and Ford Explorer coming out in EV variants.
- hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
  > OTOH the Prius was never an object of desire I disagree. It was never an object of desire in the same way Tesla's are, but it was desired in the sense that many made the decision to buy a Prius primarily for social signalling reasons - it became almost cliché that a Prius meant "look how environmentally conscious I am!" This was famously parodied it what was my favorite South Park episode of all time, "Smug Alert".
  - dntrkv 5y ago
    Not only that, but the Prius was practical. Most of the EVs on the market are not. Their range alone makes them a non-starter for most people. The Prius is a pinnacle of practicality. Great gas mileage, reliable as hell, cheap to repair, and it’s a hatchback.
themihai 5y ago