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I have to defend Apple for these verification checks. I bought replacement display online and replaced it myself, after I was all done found the display was fak

I have to defend Apple for these verification checks. I bought replacement display online and replaced it myself, after I was all done found the display was fake based on bad colors. It was old iPhone which didn't have fake component detection, I traded in that phone and now somebody else has iPhone with poor display. iPhones get used for longer period of time by multiple users and they carry high resale value, if they let devices with fake components they will eventually tank resale value as people will not trust used iPhone. I support right to repair, but ONLY with genuine parts with warranty. I want Apple to provide cheaper display replacement just like they do with batteries. As long as Amazon, EBay, and small repair shops keep selling fake iPhone displays and batteries there is no way out of this problem.

dvdkon 5y ago
I've also had a similar experience and definitely support giving users the ability to tell genuine parts from knockoffs. Howewer this has to be done to empower users, to help get us closer to a perfect market by giving buyers accurate information. Right now, it's just an extension of Apple's "it's our iPhone" mindset.
kitsunesoba 5y ago
It also presumably further discourages theft since it negatively impacts the ability to “part out” stolen devices to work around activation locks. Basically once the owner remotely locks the stolen device, it becomes almost worthless until it’s back in the owner’s possession.
- makeitdouble 5y ago
  This looks to me like a tradeoff we collectively haven’t agreed upon for any other device. To take the perennial car analogy, car theft is a widespread enough phenomenon, but we haven’t settled on breaking central functionalities each time a repair is done outside network. To push a bit further, steeply lowering phone price would also critically deter theft, why not go that option if it’s that important ?
  - judge2020 5y ago
    Well, imagine Tesla implements a feature to put a car in lost mode and it suddenly can't be driven, even with a key. At that point, the only thing the car thief could do is strip it for parts and sell them on ebay or the like.
    - makeitdouble 5y ago
      To stay in the analogy, I see it more like being forbidden to open your car with the key fob because you had the door bumps straightened. In our actual case, Apple isn't reacting to a lost mode request, and would be blocking any third party screen repair, under any circumstance.
cute_boi 5y ago
Actually its just an side advantage but deep down our heart we know apple is doing this for their own benefit not for consumers. I agree with you that every parts must be substituted with genuine parts in case of component damage. I had tried to replace s6 battery and spent like $500 but alas I failed. After 4-5 month the battery gets swollen and the backcover gets damaged costing me more. So I had to dump it and I am never going to buy any Samsung shits. I got k20 pro and I hope I can get genuine battery for it after few years. Further such things prevents theft which is a huge problem imo. I think apple should provide user to switch these display but it should warn that the part is genuine or not, just in case.
- nguyenkien 5y ago
  So you bought counterfeit battery and then blame it on Samsung?
  - HelixEndeavor 5y ago
    Yes, it's Samsung's fault that it's impossible to source genuine batteries.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- KarlKemp 5y ago
  I'm not sure if things have changed, but at least a few years ago, Apple prices for display replacements were really quite fair and far below Samsung, IIRC. Something like $ 150. I'd also be interested in some statistics on the frequency of display damage. With waterproofing and these new types of glasses, I wouldn't be surprised if they had come down rather drastically. I remember every phone I having a cracked display after a year or so. But the last two generations, maybe 5 or six years, they've always survived. Or maybe it's just my motor skills improving... But if I'm right and they are doing something like 70-80 % fewer display repairs, it becomes really hard to still assume they care very much about that revenue. There are plenty of reasons Apple would want to stop aftermarket parts, mostly of the sort you'll hear if the chef at a fancy restaurant sees the ketchup you brought from home.
franga2000 5y ago
This would be a non-issue if you could just buy the replacement screen (or any other part) from Apple or their manufacturers directly, no? Sure, it's nice if the phone can tell you that a part is non-genuine in case you got scammed, but the fact that this is even a problem is because Apple refuses to sell parts and makes repair even using genuine parts as difficult as possible. They created a problem, then "solved" it in a way that just so happens to force users to spend even more money at the fruit store. What a convenient coincidence...
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  This x 1,000,000. I have heard that Apple’s environmental concern is all talk until they empower people to get more life out of their devices to reduce electronic waste. It’s a convincing argument when one notes that their highest priorities for ‘green’ initiatives align with improving their profit margins.
- shartacct 5y ago
  You can. https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/service/screen-replacement https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/service/screen-repla... > The Apple Store and many of our Apple Authorized Service Providers offer same-day service for screen replacement. The pricing available here (for guaranteed new, genuine parts and labor) is actually cheaper than the cost of genuine replacement screens available on ebay at first glance, the first genuine iphone 11 screen I found on ebay that wasn't a chinese offbrand or used assembly is $235 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/174952166934 https://www.ebay.com/itm/174952166934) whereas apple quotes $199 for a new 11 screen and replacement service.
  - franga2000 5y ago
    That's repair, not parts, and it's only screens, not any of the other many parts that often fail. Of course the pricing is lower than buying an ebay screen, because apple won't sell you a screen, so sellers on ebay have to procure them illegally. Again, a problem that apple iself created.
    - 5y ago
tdsamardzhiev 5y ago
There certainly is a way out of this: don't buy shitty replacements. You could still get your display replaced by a legit service before Apple introduced verifications. You might prefer that someone else takes care of your broken phone, but why'd you want to force that on everybody?
- Gigachad 5y ago
  “Legit service” stores actually can get the genuine parts and software though. This mainly affects DIY repair.
  - tdsamardzhiev 5y ago
    So, the problem is that you cannot reliably obtain genuine spare parts, not that alternatives exist, right? Also, there are more people taking their devices to "non-legit" stores than people attempting DIY screen repairs. Also, how on earth is bricking my phone (that I paid for) a more desirable outcome than letting me use an inferior display (that I paid for)? Also, what about all the cases where fake replacements are actually better (e.g. swapping out a 220Hz PWM ThinkPad display for a flicker-free one)? I honestly believe people who defend such company policies are just more focused on staying positive than on making a good argument (can't blame them, either).
    - Gigachad 5y ago
      I get your perspective but I feel the situation is more complex than that. Replacement parts _never_ brick the phone. They can disable FaceID, TrueTone and show "non genuine" warnings. They also seem to bug out the cameras but this was fixed via an update on the 12 and seems likely to be fixed here too. The FaceID one seems legitimate as a malicious faceid sensor could compromise security. The truetone one looks like total rubbish and should be fixed. And the non genuine messages are useful. The problem is not you knowingly putting in a non genuine part. It's that a disappointing chunk of repair stalls and almost all online parts are non genuine and essentially fraud as they advertise as being genuine and better than the original parts. Often they are recycled parts from used / stolen devices which are worn out before you even get them. There are even stores in 3rd world countries which will remove genuine parts from your phone and replace them with fakes while doing something like a battery replacement. The non genuine message protects the customer who gets their phone repaired. It also protects the second hand buyer so they can see that the whole phone is genuine and no bad parts are used. It also protects the phone owner by making theft less valuable as the parts can not be used to their fullest. So I totally understand the issues with DIY repair here, but I also see all of the other issues at play. The main issue I see is that Apple does not do repairs on certain parts of the phone like the lightning port so if those parts break, they won't do anything for you. I'd like to see Apple and governments work together to find a solution that ensures users get maximum repairability while still being protected against part fraud. I'd like to see Apple have some open dialog with the public and governments about exactly _why_ each restriction is in place, what problems they face, and why they have to do things this way.
HelixEndeavor 5y ago
Except Apple also disables functionality if you replace the part with another genuine part from another iPhone. The only excuse is money, money, money.
- Gigachad 5y ago
  There is no way to verify the screen is genuine in a way that could not be copied. The current way works because there is nothing that can be copied. The main board asks for a serial number and only it knows what the correct one is. No 3rd party can fake that without tailoring it to the specific phone. It’s a real shitty situation but it’s a little more complex.
  - NotPractical 5y ago
    Presumably, the "security" does not come from the assumption that the serial numbers are private information -- it comes from the assumption that you can only reprogram the parts with top-secret Apple internal tools. There's no reason the serial numbers need to be paired per device; iOS should be able to check any serial number to see if it is genuine Apple. Much like you can go to https://checkcoverage.apple.com https://checkcoverage.apple.com and check the warranty status of the whole iPhone based on its serial number.
- fastball 5y ago
  Actually there is another good reason for this, and that is preventing theft. What is the point of stealing an iPhone 13 if you can't just sell the phone on (because of iCloud lock) and you can't chop-shop any of the expensive parts because they're all cryptographically registered?
  - mensetmanusman 5y ago
    This is true, but there is absolutely a solution here that Apple could implement: verification of users who want genuine replacement parts. Apple could empower their customers to be good citizens of the earth who want to reduce electronic waste while simultaneously making the lives of thieves difficult.
bengale 5y ago
It also massively reduces the value for thieves since even the parts become worthless.
turbinerneiter 5y ago
> I support right to repair, but ONLY with genuine parts with warranty. Why? Why can't I make that decision myself? If I'm fine with a cheaper display, why should apple disallow me from doing that? If they sold their spare parts in their own store, everyone could make the decision whether they want genuine or 3rd party replacement parts themselves. The phone could tell you when the part is not genuine, so you could get your money back from everyone who sold you a non-grnuir parts as genuine. No reason to block the functionality of the phone.
- elzbardico 5y ago
  Because what is a personal optimum not always is a collective optimum. One of the things that I like on iPhones is their high resale value. A lot of iPhone users trade their old phones for new ones. I voluntarily choose for that by switching from Android to Apple.
  - makeitdouble 5y ago
    Are you saying that your personal optimum for resale value primes over the collective optimum of having a replacement parts ecosystem ?
    - elzbardico 5y ago
      No. I am saying that given the size of the resale market of iPhones, I’d bet most people are more interested on that. If it were otherwise we would see more people not buying iPhones because of that. You see this phenomenon in cars, where brands with low reliability or repairability usually need more discounts to be sold.
      - turbinerneiter 5y ago
        That's is not all an argument for bricking phones with 3rd party parts, just for having a setting screen that shows which parts are original, replaced and from which source.
- 5y ago
luegen 5y ago
That's more an issue with certain online market and monopolists. If there is a diversity of products and reliable reviews and reputation systems due to different markets competing in this regards, then you can trust to get the parts that you want.

dvdkon 5y ago

I've also had a similar experience and definitely support giving users the ability to tell genuine parts from knockoffs. Howewer this has to be done to empower users, to help get us closer to a perfect market by giving buyers accurate information. Right now, it's just an extension of Apple's "it's our iPhone" mindset.

kitsunesoba 5y ago

It also presumably further discourages theft since it negatively impacts the ability to “part out” stolen devices to work around activation locks. Basically once the owner remotely locks the stolen device, it becomes almost worthless until it’s back in the owner’s possession.

makeitdouble 5y ago
This looks to me like a tradeoff we collectively haven’t agreed upon for any other device. To take the perennial car analogy, car theft is a widespread enough phenomenon, but we haven’t settled on breaking central functionalities each time a repair is done outside network. To push a bit further, steeply lowering phone price would also critically deter theft, why not go that option if it’s that important ?
- judge2020 5y ago
  Well, imagine Tesla implements a feature to put a car in lost mode and it suddenly can't be driven, even with a key. At that point, the only thing the car thief could do is strip it for parts and sell them on ebay or the like.
  - makeitdouble 5y ago
    To stay in the analogy, I see it more like being forbidden to open your car with the key fob because you had the door bumps straightened. In our actual case, Apple isn't reacting to a lost mode request, and would be blocking any third party screen repair, under any circumstance.

cute_boi 5y ago

Actually its just an side advantage but deep down our heart we know apple is doing this for their own benefit not for consumers. I agree with you that every parts must be substituted with genuine parts in case of component damage. I had tried to replace s6 battery and spent like $500 but alas I failed. After 4-5 month the battery gets swollen and the backcover gets damaged costing me more. So I had to dump it and I am never going to buy any Samsung shits. I got k20 pro and I hope I can get genuine battery for it after few years. Further such things prevents theft which is a huge problem imo. I think apple should provide user to switch these display but it should warn that the part is genuine or not, just in case.

nguyenkien 5y ago
So you bought counterfeit battery and then blame it on Samsung?
- HelixEndeavor 5y ago
  Yes, it's Samsung's fault that it's impossible to source genuine batteries.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
KarlKemp 5y ago
I'm not sure if things have changed, but at least a few years ago, Apple prices for display replacements were really quite fair and far below Samsung, IIRC. Something like $ 150. I'd also be interested in some statistics on the frequency of display damage. With waterproofing and these new types of glasses, I wouldn't be surprised if they had come down rather drastically. I remember every phone I having a cracked display after a year or so. But the last two generations, maybe 5 or six years, they've always survived. Or maybe it's just my motor skills improving... But if I'm right and they are doing something like 70-80 % fewer display repairs, it becomes really hard to still assume they care very much about that revenue. There are plenty of reasons Apple would want to stop aftermarket parts, mostly of the sort you'll hear if the chef at a fancy restaurant sees the ketchup you brought from home.

franga2000 5y ago

This would be a non-issue if you could just buy the replacement screen (or any other part) from Apple or their manufacturers directly, no? Sure, it's nice if the phone can tell you that a part is non-genuine in case you got scammed, but the fact that this is even a problem is because Apple refuses to sell parts and makes repair even using genuine parts as difficult as possible. They created a problem, then "solved" it in a way that just so happens to force users to spend even more money at the fruit store. What a convenient coincidence...

mensetmanusman 5y ago
This x 1,000,000. I have heard that Apple’s environmental concern is all talk until they empower people to get more life out of their devices to reduce electronic waste. It’s a convincing argument when one notes that their highest priorities for ‘green’ initiatives align with improving their profit margins.
shartacct 5y ago
You can. https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/service/screen-replacement https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/service/screen-repla... > The Apple Store and many of our Apple Authorized Service Providers offer same-day service for screen replacement. The pricing available here (for guaranteed new, genuine parts and labor) is actually cheaper than the cost of genuine replacement screens available on ebay at first glance, the first genuine iphone 11 screen I found on ebay that wasn't a chinese offbrand or used assembly is $235 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/174952166934 https://www.ebay.com/itm/174952166934) whereas apple quotes $199 for a new 11 screen and replacement service.
- franga2000 5y ago
  That's repair, not parts, and it's only screens, not any of the other many parts that often fail. Of course the pricing is lower than buying an ebay screen, because apple won't sell you a screen, so sellers on ebay have to procure them illegally. Again, a problem that apple iself created.
  - 5y ago

tdsamardzhiev 5y ago

There certainly is a way out of this: don't buy shitty replacements. You could still get your display replaced by a legit service before Apple introduced verifications. You might prefer that someone else takes care of your broken phone, but why'd you want to force that on everybody?

Gigachad 5y ago
“Legit service” stores actually can get the genuine parts and software though. This mainly affects DIY repair.
- tdsamardzhiev 5y ago
  So, the problem is that you cannot reliably obtain genuine spare parts, not that alternatives exist, right? Also, there are more people taking their devices to "non-legit" stores than people attempting DIY screen repairs. Also, how on earth is bricking my phone (that I paid for) a more desirable outcome than letting me use an inferior display (that I paid for)? Also, what about all the cases where fake replacements are actually better (e.g. swapping out a 220Hz PWM ThinkPad display for a flicker-free one)? I honestly believe people who defend such company policies are just more focused on staying positive than on making a good argument (can't blame them, either).
  - Gigachad 5y ago
    I get your perspective but I feel the situation is more complex than that. Replacement parts _never_ brick the phone. They can disable FaceID, TrueTone and show "non genuine" warnings. They also seem to bug out the cameras but this was fixed via an update on the 12 and seems likely to be fixed here too. The FaceID one seems legitimate as a malicious faceid sensor could compromise security. The truetone one looks like total rubbish and should be fixed. And the non genuine messages are useful. The problem is not you knowingly putting in a non genuine part. It's that a disappointing chunk of repair stalls and almost all online parts are non genuine and essentially fraud as they advertise as being genuine and better than the original parts. Often they are recycled parts from used / stolen devices which are worn out before you even get them. There are even stores in 3rd world countries which will remove genuine parts from your phone and replace them with fakes while doing something like a battery replacement. The non genuine message protects the customer who gets their phone repaired. It also protects the second hand buyer so they can see that the whole phone is genuine and no bad parts are used. It also protects the phone owner by making theft less valuable as the parts can not be used to their fullest. So I totally understand the issues with DIY repair here, but I also see all of the other issues at play. The main issue I see is that Apple does not do repairs on certain parts of the phone like the lightning port so if those parts break, they won't do anything for you. I'd like to see Apple and governments work together to find a solution that ensures users get maximum repairability while still being protected against part fraud. I'd like to see Apple have some open dialog with the public and governments about exactly _why_ each restriction is in place, what problems they face, and why they have to do things this way.

HelixEndeavor 5y ago

Except Apple also disables functionality if you replace the part with another genuine part from another iPhone. The only excuse is money, money, money.

Gigachad 5y ago
There is no way to verify the screen is genuine in a way that could not be copied. The current way works because there is nothing that can be copied. The main board asks for a serial number and only it knows what the correct one is. No 3rd party can fake that without tailoring it to the specific phone. It’s a real shitty situation but it’s a little more complex.
- NotPractical 5y ago
  Presumably, the "security" does not come from the assumption that the serial numbers are private information -- it comes from the assumption that you can only reprogram the parts with top-secret Apple internal tools. There's no reason the serial numbers need to be paired per device; iOS should be able to check any serial number to see if it is genuine Apple. Much like you can go to https://checkcoverage.apple.com https://checkcoverage.apple.com and check the warranty status of the whole iPhone based on its serial number.
fastball 5y ago
Actually there is another good reason for this, and that is preventing theft. What is the point of stealing an iPhone 13 if you can't just sell the phone on (because of iCloud lock) and you can't chop-shop any of the expensive parts because they're all cryptographically registered?
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  This is true, but there is absolutely a solution here that Apple could implement: verification of users who want genuine replacement parts. Apple could empower their customers to be good citizens of the earth who want to reduce electronic waste while simultaneously making the lives of thieves difficult.

bengale 5y ago

It also massively reduces the value for thieves since even the parts become worthless.

turbinerneiter 5y ago

> I support right to repair, but ONLY with genuine parts with warranty. Why? Why can't I make that decision myself? If I'm fine with a cheaper display, why should apple disallow me from doing that? If they sold their spare parts in their own store, everyone could make the decision whether they want genuine or 3rd party replacement parts themselves. The phone could tell you when the part is not genuine, so you could get your money back from everyone who sold you a non-grnuir parts as genuine. No reason to block the functionality of the phone.

elzbardico 5y ago
Because what is a personal optimum not always is a collective optimum. One of the things that I like on iPhones is their high resale value. A lot of iPhone users trade their old phones for new ones. I voluntarily choose for that by switching from Android to Apple.
- makeitdouble 5y ago
  Are you saying that your personal optimum for resale value primes over the collective optimum of having a replacement parts ecosystem ?
  - elzbardico 5y ago
    No. I am saying that given the size of the resale market of iPhones, I’d bet most people are more interested on that. If it were otherwise we would see more people not buying iPhones because of that. You see this phenomenon in cars, where brands with low reliability or repairability usually need more discounts to be sold.
    - turbinerneiter 5y ago
      That's is not all an argument for bricking phones with 3rd party parts, just for having a setting screen that shows which parts are original, replaced and from which source.
5y ago

luegen 5y ago

That's more an issue with certain online market and monopolists. If there is a diversity of products and reliable reviews and reputation systems due to different markets competing in this regards, then you can trust to get the parts that you want.