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> Facebook is such a terrible human manipulation company $X is such a terrible human manipulation $enterprise. Let's not be naive about the nature of prominen

> Facebook is such a terrible human manipulation company $X is such a terrible human manipulation $enterprise. Let's not be naive about the nature of prominent elements in our society. To take action against FB, one would establish precedent to curtail many types of widely-accepted manipulation and exploitation, not to mention corporate machiavellianism. (Machiavelli seems thoroughly benign these days.) "Social media" is a delivery mechanism for propaganda and surveillance, with a smaller element of actual sociability and collaboration. I am opposed to what we see in social-media business, and I certainly don't think children should be encouraged to use it. > Is this how you want the next generation to be? One looks upon the current generations without much admiration.

shadowgovt 5y ago
Maybe, maybe not. We took action against the cigarette companies and it didn't establish that precedent.
- heresie-dabord 5y ago
  Interesting discussion. The tobacco settlement was a settlement. It didn't put the poisoners out of business. Their poison is still sold in our society. People -- including young people -- are still smoking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_Master_Settlement_Agreement#Restrictions_on_youth_targeting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_Master_Settlement_Agre... FB isn't some harmful drug like thalidomide, nor does it cause concussions or cancer. It's going to be a subtle battle to wage, and must take into consideration that all the rotten and stupid behaviours of FB/social-media users -- as well as pathological behaviours -- were observable and demonstrable both outside of and long before social-media business. It's the implicit rule in our society that children should be protected, but foolish adults can be maximally abused. Maximally-abused adults are not going to do much for progress or for children. For example, children and young adults are still encouraged to play concussion sports, despite the evidence.
  - cblconfederate 5y ago
    > FB isn't some harmful drug like thalidomide All addictions go through the same systems in our brain, the same regions releasing the same neurotransmitters. Thus if i'm OK with social addiction then it should be OK to give mild drugs and gambling to kids as well , if we want to be fair. Behavioral studies need to research more the long-term effects of SM use, now that control groups still exist. I also don't think those behaviors were so frequently observed in the past, we used to call such people sociopaths, nowadays everyone is incentivized to become a sociopath and this is normal?
cblconfederate 5y ago
i didnt speak about taking legal action but at least creating some societal resistance to its manipulative nature. FB is primarily a manipulation tool because it shapes and gamifies the way any kind of information is delivered, from baby pics to shopping and politics. Its social mechanics is a form of drug, yet people normally dont give drugs to their kids, and they prevent them from many addictive behaviors. In any case, kids will grow up and look back to that treadmill as silly. But i keep wondering what do all those people who work for facebook think they are doing
lax76 5y ago
>Let's not be naive about the nature of prominent elements in our society This is different from what we have seen before. This is an Emergent system operating at population scale, at speeds we haven't experienced before, where no one can tell you, including FB, what might emerge out the system tomorrow morning. This is very different from political corrruption or big oil/mil complex/wall st etc playing games. Their games dont run this fast.

shadowgovt 5y ago

Maybe, maybe not. We took action against the cigarette companies and it didn't establish that precedent.

heresie-dabord 5y ago
Interesting discussion. The tobacco settlement was a settlement. It didn't put the poisoners out of business. Their poison is still sold in our society. People -- including young people -- are still smoking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_Master_Settlement_Agreement#Restrictions_on_youth_targeting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_Master_Settlement_Agre... FB isn't some harmful drug like thalidomide, nor does it cause concussions or cancer. It's going to be a subtle battle to wage, and must take into consideration that all the rotten and stupid behaviours of FB/social-media users -- as well as pathological behaviours -- were observable and demonstrable both outside of and long before social-media business. It's the implicit rule in our society that children should be protected, but foolish adults can be maximally abused. Maximally-abused adults are not going to do much for progress or for children. For example, children and young adults are still encouraged to play concussion sports, despite the evidence.
- cblconfederate 5y ago
  > FB isn't some harmful drug like thalidomide All addictions go through the same systems in our brain, the same regions releasing the same neurotransmitters. Thus if i'm OK with social addiction then it should be OK to give mild drugs and gambling to kids as well , if we want to be fair. Behavioral studies need to research more the long-term effects of SM use, now that control groups still exist. I also don't think those behaviors were so frequently observed in the past, we used to call such people sociopaths, nowadays everyone is incentivized to become a sociopath and this is normal?

cblconfederate 5y ago

i didnt speak about taking legal action but at least creating some societal resistance to its manipulative nature. FB is primarily a manipulation tool because it shapes and gamifies the way any kind of information is delivered, from baby pics to shopping and politics. Its social mechanics is a form of drug, yet people normally dont give drugs to their kids, and they prevent them from many addictive behaviors. In any case, kids will grow up and look back to that treadmill as silly. But i keep wondering what do all those people who work for facebook think they are doing

lax76 5y ago

>Let's not be naive about the nature of prominent elements in our society This is different from what we have seen before. This is an Emergent system operating at population scale, at speeds we haven't experienced before, where no one can tell you, including FB, what might emerge out the system tomorrow morning. This is very different from political corrruption or big oil/mil complex/wall st etc playing games. Their games dont run this fast.