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Wait, are we expected to trust the chat popup that refers to us as "comrade"?

by prvc 5y ago

Spivak 5y ago
Wild! I didn’t think anything of it since in my social circle being ironically not-ironically communist is totally normal. Using lingo like “comrade” or more extremely stuff like “Daddy Stalin” is just counterreactionary and an attempt to “own the label” when people accuse you of being a communist or socialist for wanting the mildest of progressive policies. Edit: Not sure why the downvotes for what is basically a candid, “hey if you’re confused about the wording it’s because it’s a very specific political activism shibboleth.”
- mkr-hn 5y ago
  The Chinese equivalent to comrade also fills the role queer does in modern English in Hong Kong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongzhi_(term)#Usage_in_contemporary_Macau_and_Hong_Kong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongzhi_(term)#Usage_in_contem...
  - Spivak 5y ago
    That’s really cool, I love it!
- acheron 5y ago
  I would guess the downvotes are because talking about how you and your friends “ironically” praise one of the worst mass murderers in history is not as cute as you apparently think it is.
  - Spivak 5y ago
    It’s not really meant to be cute exactly, it’s more meant to take away the power of silencing tactics like, “oh so you’re a communist then?” by leaning into it and responding with absurdity. Nobody who calls you a socialist like that is trying to have a rational reasoned argument — they’re trying to put you on the defensive and shut down your argument using some mouth sounds they’ve memorized. But the trick and why these silencing tactics work is because if you try to take the high road and engage with them intellectually at all you lose. You spend all your energy on the defensive trying to explain why that’s so wrong it’s not even funny and it looks like they win because nobody is paying any attention after the snappy communist quip. But if you lean into it and say something like “yeah obviously, I want that big Mao Zedong” observers know that you’re being absurd but the accusation just rolls off and now you control the direction of the argument. This is basically how to publicly engage with people who argue in bad faith 101.
loloquwowndueo 5y ago
What’s wrong with “comrade” ?
- hagbard_c 5y ago
  With the word itself? Nothing, really. With the ideology which traditionally uses it? Plenty. The same goes for that black fist they're using, in itself it is but an image but it happens to be the image which has been used and continues to be used by the same ideology which is known for using the word 'comrade'. The better question to ask is what went wrong in the education departments which did not only fail to teach the lessons of failed Marxism-inspired ideologies but actively promotes them, leading to a remarkable resurgence of what was written of as terminally wounded after the fall of the Soviet Union - socialism and communism. They failed to teach history of communism and socialism in its many guises, the bloody trail it has left behind and continues to produce and the untold number of lives lost to these ideologies. Instead, they just hitched a ride on the revolutionary bandwagon which got started in 1968, promoting the virtues of yet another Marxism-inspired ideology - critical theory. They managed to lower the academic standards, especially among those groups in society who they claim to want to protect. Instead of teaching students the basic tenets of their disciplines they taught them the ever-changing strictures of their ideologies. What happened is that a student of this system ended up working for the Internet Archive and thought the symbolism employed by Stalin and Mao would be just the thing to use to promote the essence of western liberalism: freedom of thought and freedom of expression. She probably never realised the contradiction between what she thought this symbolism represents versus what is has represented in the past.
  - loloquwowndueo 5y ago
    Wow you sure are reading a lot into a word which is otherwise correctly employed.
    - hagbard_c 5y ago
      Nope, I just realise how it came to be that people think these symbols represent 'good intentions' while in reality they should b relegated to the history books right next to those employed by their ideological cousins of Fascism and National Socialism. Would you react in the same way if they had used a fasces [1] instead of a clutched fist? The term comrade was employed by both National Socialists (the 'Horst Wessel' song starts with 'Comrades, the voices...') and Fascism so it has a rich history in oppressive ideologies. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_symbolism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_symbolism
liftm 5y ago
I get called "friend" now. You broke it! I find the fact that it is a fake chat pop-up a lot more untrustworthy.
mkr-hn 5y ago
The Internet Archive is collective action...in action. Why would they use any other word? It's an example of people successfully working together for a common goal.
- SyzygistSix 5y ago
  I'm a huge fan of collective action. That's what communities are. I still never use "comrade" in a non-ironic or non-sarcastic manner. Voluntary power with people is different than authoritarian power over people.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

Wait, are we expected to trust the chat popup that refers to us as "comrade"?

by prvc 5y ago

Wait, are we expected to trust the chat popup that refers to us as "comrade"?

Wild! I didn’t think anything of it since in my social circle being ironically not-ironically communist is totally normal. Using lingo like “comrade” or more extremely stuff like “Daddy Stalin” is just counterreactionary and an attempt to “own the label” when people accuse you of being a communist or socialist for wanting the mildest of progressive policies. Edit: Not sure why the downvotes for what is basically a candid, “hey if you’re confused about the wording it’s because it’s a very specific political activism shibboleth.”

mkr-hn 5y ago
The Chinese equivalent to comrade also fills the role queer does in modern English in Hong Kong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongzhi_(term)#Usage_in_contemporary_Macau_and_Hong_Kong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongzhi_(term)#Usage_in_contem...
- Spivak 5y ago
  That’s really cool, I love it!
acheron 5y ago
I would guess the downvotes are because talking about how you and your friends “ironically” praise one of the worst mass murderers in history is not as cute as you apparently think it is.
- Spivak 5y ago
  It’s not really meant to be cute exactly, it’s more meant to take away the power of silencing tactics like, “oh so you’re a communist then?” by leaning into it and responding with absurdity. Nobody who calls you a socialist like that is trying to have a rational reasoned argument — they’re trying to put you on the defensive and shut down your argument using some mouth sounds they’ve memorized. But the trick and why these silencing tactics work is because if you try to take the high road and engage with them intellectually at all you lose. You spend all your energy on the defensive trying to explain why that’s so wrong it’s not even funny and it looks like they win because nobody is paying any attention after the snappy communist quip. But if you lean into it and say something like “yeah obviously, I want that big Mao Zedong” observers know that you’re being absurd but the accusation just rolls off and now you control the direction of the argument. This is basically how to publicly engage with people who argue in bad faith 101.

loloquwowndueo 5y ago

What’s wrong with “comrade” ?

hagbard_c 5y ago
With the word itself? Nothing, really. With the ideology which traditionally uses it? Plenty. The same goes for that black fist they're using, in itself it is but an image but it happens to be the image which has been used and continues to be used by the same ideology which is known for using the word 'comrade'. The better question to ask is what went wrong in the education departments which did not only fail to teach the lessons of failed Marxism-inspired ideologies but actively promotes them, leading to a remarkable resurgence of what was written of as terminally wounded after the fall of the Soviet Union - socialism and communism. They failed to teach history of communism and socialism in its many guises, the bloody trail it has left behind and continues to produce and the untold number of lives lost to these ideologies. Instead, they just hitched a ride on the revolutionary bandwagon which got started in 1968, promoting the virtues of yet another Marxism-inspired ideology - critical theory. They managed to lower the academic standards, especially among those groups in society who they claim to want to protect. Instead of teaching students the basic tenets of their disciplines they taught them the ever-changing strictures of their ideologies. What happened is that a student of this system ended up working for the Internet Archive and thought the symbolism employed by Stalin and Mao would be just the thing to use to promote the essence of western liberalism: freedom of thought and freedom of expression. She probably never realised the contradiction between what she thought this symbolism represents versus what is has represented in the past.
- loloquwowndueo 5y ago
  Wow you sure are reading a lot into a word which is otherwise correctly employed.
  - hagbard_c 5y ago
    Nope, I just realise how it came to be that people think these symbols represent 'good intentions' while in reality they should b relegated to the history books right next to those employed by their ideological cousins of Fascism and National Socialism. Would you react in the same way if they had used a fasces [1] instead of a clutched fist? The term comrade was employed by both National Socialists (the 'Horst Wessel' song starts with 'Comrades, the voices...') and Fascism so it has a rich history in oppressive ideologies. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_symbolism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_symbolism

liftm 5y ago

I get called "friend" now. You broke it! I find the fact that it is a fake chat pop-up a lot more untrustworthy.

mkr-hn 5y ago

The Internet Archive is collective action...in action. Why would they use any other word? It's an example of people successfully working together for a common goal.

SyzygistSix 5y ago
I'm a huge fan of collective action. That's what communities are. I still never use "comrade" in a non-ironic or non-sarcastic manner. Voluntary power with people is different than authoritarian power over people.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]