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> "If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization." Except that isn’t wha

by jgeada 5y ago

> "If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization." Except that isn’t what software engineers largely do, we aren’t building the nth copy of the same building with a slightly different skin. Those kind of largely canned projects are straightforward and mostly offshored to low cost countries. The other type of project is complex and unpredictable because no one knows the full scope of the project, the specifications and interactions. Most of the complexity and time in software engineering is getting that sorted, not the coding. Not to say coding something complex and non-trivial is easy, but the main challenges aren’t the code IMHO

austincheney 5y ago
> Except that isn’t what software engineers largely do, we aren’t building the nth copy of the same building with a slightly different skin. That’s exactly what most developers do. There is far greater variation in boring bridges spanning small streams than most web applications and yet after more than 20 years we still can’t figure it out without some giant framework to do most of it for us.
- jgeada 5y ago
  Cost of replicating software is near zero, if you want the same thing as the next guy you can have it right now, no schedule risk. Except that isn’t what they want, they want the same “except for this, and with this extra, and change that…”. And we are back at the discover the spec stage again
  - austincheney 5y ago
    You are overstating requirements gathering and then somehow confusing that for building anything technical. This only exemplifies the incompetence. Bridge building is only more predictable because it’s more expensive. The same planning problems are still there but are worked out well in advance by people who aren’t so easily confused.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    We know mate, you are preaching to the quer. His point is you cannot exactly replicate a bridge either even if you've got an identical one 300 meters away - the river twists and turns, soil conditions differ, foundations may be different, etc. You never get to 'copy-paste' anything more conplicated than a shed ir a single-story house
bregma 5y ago
The main challenge of building a building that does not collapse isn't how to swing a hammer.
ivan_gammel 5y ago
Every building is unique construction project regardless of how much you can save on using existing blueprints or readymade components. You need to consider soils, unevenness of surface, connection to communications and roads etc etc. Construction projects are indeed the same as software projects, when you consider the planning and execution. Even in that some discoveries may happen at the last stages, adjustments have to be made, blueprints have to be changed.

by jgeada 5y ago

austincheney 5y ago

> Except that isn’t what software engineers largely do, we aren’t building the nth copy of the same building with a slightly different skin. That’s exactly what most developers do. There is far greater variation in boring bridges spanning small streams than most web applications and yet after more than 20 years we still can’t figure it out without some giant framework to do most of it for us.

jgeada 5y ago
Cost of replicating software is near zero, if you want the same thing as the next guy you can have it right now, no schedule risk. Except that isn’t what they want, they want the same “except for this, and with this extra, and change that…”. And we are back at the discover the spec stage again
- austincheney 5y ago
  You are overstating requirements gathering and then somehow confusing that for building anything technical. This only exemplifies the incompetence. Bridge building is only more predictable because it’s more expensive. The same planning problems are still there but are worked out well in advance by people who aren’t so easily confused.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  We know mate, you are preaching to the quer. His point is you cannot exactly replicate a bridge either even if you've got an identical one 300 meters away - the river twists and turns, soil conditions differ, foundations may be different, etc. You never get to 'copy-paste' anything more conplicated than a shed ir a single-story house

bregma 5y ago

The main challenge of building a building that does not collapse isn't how to swing a hammer.

ivan_gammel 5y ago

Every building is unique construction project regardless of how much you can save on using existing blueprints or readymade components. You need to consider soils, unevenness of surface, connection to communications and roads etc etc. Construction projects are indeed the same as software projects, when you consider the planning and execution. Even in that some discoveries may happen at the last stages, adjustments have to be made, blueprints have to be changed.