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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party https://www.city-journal.org/chile-demonstrations https://ww

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party https://www.city-journal.org/chile-demonstrations https://www.city-journal.org/chile-demonstrations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_in_Vietnam#:~:text=Socialism%20in%20Vietnam,%20in%20particular,century%20besides%20liberalism%20and%20conservatism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_in_Vietnam#:~:text=S....

TeeMassive 5y ago
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party Even if they came from poor families, the founders of the Black Panthers were two college students, not workers. Malcolm X was not a Marxist. > https://www.city-journal.org/chile-demonstrations https://www.city-journal.org/chile-demonstrations Demonstrations are almost only a fraction of the most activist of the youth. And yet no "spontaneous workers revolt". Also from the article: > Chile’s middle class, rather than resisting the leftists, has joined the popular uprising. Why would this class, which didn’t exist a generation ago—it emerged out of the relative prosperity associated with neoliberalism and has entered the phase of rising expectations—endorse the revolt? > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_in_Vietnam#:~:text=Socialism%20in%20Vietnam,%20in%20particular,century%20besides%20liberalism%20and%20conservatism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_in_Vietnam#:~:text=S... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh Again, college educated, not an oppressed and poor worker.
- zapataband1 5y ago
  Marxism is itself not an ideology more of an analytical framework. The word we should both be using is Communist and yes Malcom X was a communist. "In 1950, the FBI opened a file on Malcolm after he wrote a letter from prison to President Truman expressing opposition to the Korean War and declaring himself a communist."
  - TeeMassive 5y ago
    You are making a distinction without making a difference in the argument. "it's not an ideology, it's an analytical framework", sounds more like a bad marketing campaign than a compelling argument. > The word we should both be using is Communist and yes Malcom X was a communist. "In 1950, the FBI opened a file on Malcolm after he wrote a letter from prison to President Truman expressing opposition to the Korean War and declaring himself a communist." You are taking things out of context. At the time anti-communism was used and abused to suppress all sort of inconvenient political movements. Saying "then yeah I'm a communist" in defiance didn't make you one. Also: https://www.marxist.com/malcolm-x-forty-years-after.htm https://www.marxist.com/malcolm-x-forty-years-after.htm > Malcolm X was always a man who was rethinking and recreating himself, but there is no concrete documentation that he was on the verge of becoming a Marxist, or even a socialist. https://www.socialist.net/malcolm-x-you-show-me-a-capitalist-i-ll-show-you-a-bloodsucker.htm https://www.socialist.net/malcolm-x-you-show-me-a-capitalist... > Despite the opinion of some so-called Marxist groups in the US and abroad, Malcolm X was not a socialist, and he never claimed to be. https://socialistresurgence.org/2020/02/21/malcolm-x-black-nationalism-and-socialism/ https://socialistresurgence.org/2020/02/21/malcolm-x-black-n... > His evolution was incomplete—or rather, incompleted. He was not, or was not yet, as Breitman is careful to point out, a Marxist.
    - zapataband1 5y ago
      I'm wasn't arguing merely mentioning that we are both incorrectly using language. Didn't know that was marketing. Fair enough on Malcolm. Still think it is not correct to oversimply massive worker movements that have toppled governments, the nazis, and the US military as merely college students.
- zapataband1 5y ago
  You're right I forgot that all of these people acted alone, and that there were absolutely no young poor people involved in any of these worker movements. I also forgot that college students remain college students forever and don't become workers, probably went straight to wall street being rich and black in those times.
  - TeeMassive 5y ago
    Some workers, most didn't. The fact that every sine communist regime has to use censorship and suppression at all times to keep going is really telling of the actual lack of support they have.

TeeMassive 5y ago

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party Even if they came from poor families, the founders of the Black Panthers were two college students, not workers. Malcolm X was not a Marxist. > https://www.city-journal.org/chile-demonstrations https://www.city-journal.org/chile-demonstrations Demonstrations are almost only a fraction of the most activist of the youth. And yet no "spontaneous workers revolt". Also from the article: > Chile’s middle class, rather than resisting the leftists, has joined the popular uprising. Why would this class, which didn’t exist a generation ago—it emerged out of the relative prosperity associated with neoliberalism and has entered the phase of rising expectations—endorse the revolt? > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_in_Vietnam#:~:text=Socialism%20in%20Vietnam,%20in%20particular,century%20besides%20liberalism%20and%20conservatism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_in_Vietnam#:~:text=S... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh Again, college educated, not an oppressed and poor worker.

zapataband1 5y ago
Marxism is itself not an ideology more of an analytical framework. The word we should both be using is Communist and yes Malcom X was a communist. "In 1950, the FBI opened a file on Malcolm after he wrote a letter from prison to President Truman expressing opposition to the Korean War and declaring himself a communist."
- TeeMassive 5y ago
  You are making a distinction without making a difference in the argument. "it's not an ideology, it's an analytical framework", sounds more like a bad marketing campaign than a compelling argument. > The word we should both be using is Communist and yes Malcom X was a communist. "In 1950, the FBI opened a file on Malcolm after he wrote a letter from prison to President Truman expressing opposition to the Korean War and declaring himself a communist." You are taking things out of context. At the time anti-communism was used and abused to suppress all sort of inconvenient political movements. Saying "then yeah I'm a communist" in defiance didn't make you one. Also: https://www.marxist.com/malcolm-x-forty-years-after.htm https://www.marxist.com/malcolm-x-forty-years-after.htm > Malcolm X was always a man who was rethinking and recreating himself, but there is no concrete documentation that he was on the verge of becoming a Marxist, or even a socialist. https://www.socialist.net/malcolm-x-you-show-me-a-capitalist-i-ll-show-you-a-bloodsucker.htm https://www.socialist.net/malcolm-x-you-show-me-a-capitalist... > Despite the opinion of some so-called Marxist groups in the US and abroad, Malcolm X was not a socialist, and he never claimed to be. https://socialistresurgence.org/2020/02/21/malcolm-x-black-nationalism-and-socialism/ https://socialistresurgence.org/2020/02/21/malcolm-x-black-n... > His evolution was incomplete—or rather, incompleted. He was not, or was not yet, as Breitman is careful to point out, a Marxist.
  - zapataband1 5y ago
    I'm wasn't arguing merely mentioning that we are both incorrectly using language. Didn't know that was marketing. Fair enough on Malcolm. Still think it is not correct to oversimply massive worker movements that have toppled governments, the nazis, and the US military as merely college students.
zapataband1 5y ago
You're right I forgot that all of these people acted alone, and that there were absolutely no young poor people involved in any of these worker movements. I also forgot that college students remain college students forever and don't become workers, probably went straight to wall street being rich and black in those times.
- TeeMassive 5y ago
  Some workers, most didn't. The fact that every sine communist regime has to use censorship and suppression at all times to keep going is really telling of the actual lack of support they have.