3 ms·

Pendantic language question: The clock's Japanese name is "万年自鳴鐘" per the article... Then they say "Literally translated as the 'million year clock'"... But the

Pendantic language question: The clock's Japanese name is "万年自鳴鐘" per the article... Then they say "Literally translated as the 'million year clock'"... But they also call it the myriad (10,000) year clock... (And 万 is 10,000, right?)

capeterson 5y ago
It could have something to do with the general idea of large numbers (e.g. 10,000) meaning a long time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_thousand_years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_thousand_years As a result, even though 万 literally means 10,000, it is possible that 万 is used as more of a general idea for longevity. However, the article using the world "literally" would still be incorrect, I suppose! Anyways, just figured that might clear up a small part of your question, since the usage of 万 is not necessarily literal in many East Asian languages.
wodenokoto 5y ago
万 is 10.000 but often used similar to how we use million to denote "a large number" (as in "one in a million chance", which doesn't mean literally one over a million, it just means really small)
- nielsbot 5y ago
  Interesting then that "myriad" in English also means "a lot", as well as 10,000. Sorry, and what about 億? (I only have a little Chinese)
  - jazzyjackson 5y ago
    I can only imagine all these language had a word for 'uncountable number' which was then repurposed as mathematics developed (you need to invent column placeholders and powers of 10 before you have a specific notion of '10,000') 億 is just 10,000 * 10,000, perhaps you could say "a myriad of myriads" if one myriad wasn't enough. Wikipedia article on 10,000 has this to say: Many languages have a specific word for this number: in Ancient Greek it is μύριοι (the etymological root of the word myriad in English), in Aramaic ܪܒܘܬܐ, in Hebrew רבבה [revava], in Chinese 萬/万 (Mandarin wàn, Cantonese maan6, Hokkien bān), in Japanese 万/萬 [man], in Khmer ម៉ឺន [meun], in Korean 만/萬 [man], in Russian тьма [t'ma], in Vietnamese vạn, in Thai หมื่น [meun], in Malayalam പതിനായിരം [patinayiram], and in Malagasy alina.[1] In many of these languages, it often denotes a very large but indefinite number. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10,000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10,000
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - jbboehr 5y ago
    TBH, when I saw the term "myriad" in the title, I was expecting the term "八百万" (yaoyorozu, 8 million) [0]. [0]: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%85%AB%E7%99%BE%E4%B8%87 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%85%AB%E7%99%BE%E4%B8%87
tasogare 5y ago
万 is not to be taken literally as 10,000 in this context but as a very big number, so million year is a good translation.

capeterson 5y ago

It could have something to do with the general idea of large numbers (e.g. 10,000) meaning a long time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_thousand_years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_thousand_years As a result, even though 万 literally means 10,000, it is possible that 万 is used as more of a general idea for longevity. However, the article using the world "literally" would still be incorrect, I suppose! Anyways, just figured that might clear up a small part of your question, since the usage of 万 is not necessarily literal in many East Asian languages.

wodenokoto 5y ago

万 is 10.000 but often used similar to how we use million to denote "a large number" (as in "one in a million chance", which doesn't mean literally one over a million, it just means really small)

nielsbot 5y ago
Interesting then that "myriad" in English also means "a lot", as well as 10,000. Sorry, and what about 億? (I only have a little Chinese)
- jazzyjackson 5y ago
  I can only imagine all these language had a word for 'uncountable number' which was then repurposed as mathematics developed (you need to invent column placeholders and powers of 10 before you have a specific notion of '10,000') 億 is just 10,000 * 10,000, perhaps you could say "a myriad of myriads" if one myriad wasn't enough. Wikipedia article on 10,000 has this to say: Many languages have a specific word for this number: in Ancient Greek it is μύριοι (the etymological root of the word myriad in English), in Aramaic ܪܒܘܬܐ, in Hebrew רבבה [revava], in Chinese 萬/万 (Mandarin wàn, Cantonese maan6, Hokkien bān), in Japanese 万/萬 [man], in Khmer ម៉ឺន [meun], in Korean 만/萬 [man], in Russian тьма [t'ma], in Vietnamese vạn, in Thai หมื่น [meun], in Malayalam പതിനായിരം [patinayiram], and in Malagasy alina.[1] In many of these languages, it often denotes a very large but indefinite number. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10,000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10,000
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- jbboehr 5y ago
  TBH, when I saw the term "myriad" in the title, I was expecting the term "八百万" (yaoyorozu, 8 million) [0]. [0]: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%85%AB%E7%99%BE%E4%B8%87 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%85%AB%E7%99%BE%E4%B8%87

tasogare 5y ago

万 is not to be taken literally as 10,000 in this context but as a very big number, so million year is a good translation.