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I think Microsoft and others like IBM failed to “get it”. They tried to adopt blockchain tech without the cryptocurrency aspect, failing to realize there needs

I think Microsoft and others like IBM failed to “get it”. They tried to adopt blockchain tech without the cryptocurrency aspect, failing to realize there needs to be a built-in incentive structure for people to participate on any blockchain network. Mining, staking, and other proof / reward systems are required for any blockchain tech to get off the ground.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
IBM and Microsoft cater to enterprises. Enterprises whose entrenched positions are challenged by decentralized systems. Centralizing a decentralized system is done either to bootstrap it (optimistic) or embrace, extend, and extinguish it (pessimistic). A corporation alone might not need a blockchain, but has no choice but to participate if that’s where the market is, and a consensus of participants (no pun intended) is who determines that technology (not corporate procurement). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...
- lottin 5y ago
  Can you please give a single example of an enterprise that is being challenged by a decentralised system?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - PKop 5y ago
    I would say commercial banks are on their way to being challenged by DeFi and stablecoins on Ethereum. But it is debatable how decentralized this system in its entirety is given the biggest entities are centralized custodian coins. But still.. massive disparities in yields and flexibility of moving value around at will does have enough disruptive force that banks and the Federal reserve are racing to both regulate stablecoins and push "CeFi" instiutions into registering as banks themselves, while on the other end legacy finance is moving towards adopting some of these systems themselves.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    Clearing and settlement of securities. https://paxos.com https://paxos.com
verdverm 5y ago
Hyperledger Fabric uses Proof of Authority and is still being used for projects. Being antithetical to the crypto crowd it doesn't get the same fanfare. The target user base is very different. I personally would reach for this tech stack before the permissionless variety, I just don't have anything that needs blockchain.
- sanderjd 5y ago
  What are some projects it is used for?
  - verdverm 5y ago
    Primarily supply chain. https://www.hyperledger.org/learn/case-studies https://www.hyperledger.org/learn/case-studies Understand connecting IRL to BCL (blockchain ledger) is where provenance breaks down. Just because a blockchain says something, does not mean it is true. Just that the data onchain hasn't changed.
PKop 5y ago
Agree, and this quote from the OP's link is humorous in that regard: "While blockchain is best known for its association with cryptocurrencies, it has applications beyond this field." This sentiment is just thrown around without evidence. Either a blockchain has an internal reward mechanism to account for the increased costs associated with it's execution or it is simply a more complicated and expensive database looking for a problem to solve...and also is likely not decentralized.
- dogman144 5y ago
  Good evidence is git, which is a blockchain (linked list of hashes).
  - jcliff 5y ago
    without a way to resolve the canonical version without trusting a singular maintainer, git is not a blockchain. blockchains enforce consensus in a decentralized way, at least public blockchains do or should.
    - dogman144 5y ago
      Well no, blockchain plus consensus algorithm does what you’re describing.
      - jcliff 5y ago
        it's not a blockchain without a consensus algorithm. it's a linked list of hashes.
        dogman144 5y ago
        While I get what you're referring too, you're drawing from a community wisdom definition vs. any clear technical spec deeming it such, which is what I'm highlighting here. Even the whitepaper calls it "a timestamp network."
snotrockets 5y ago
Considering the prevailing incentives are all criminal, no wonder they failed to "get it" [sic]

toomuchtodo 5y ago

IBM and Microsoft cater to enterprises. Enterprises whose entrenched positions are challenged by decentralized systems. Centralizing a decentralized system is done either to bootstrap it (optimistic) or embrace, extend, and extinguish it (pessimistic). A corporation alone might not need a blockchain, but has no choice but to participate if that’s where the market is, and a consensus of participants (no pun intended) is who determines that technology (not corporate procurement). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...

lottin 5y ago
Can you please give a single example of an enterprise that is being challenged by a decentralised system?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- PKop 5y ago
  I would say commercial banks are on their way to being challenged by DeFi and stablecoins on Ethereum. But it is debatable how decentralized this system in its entirety is given the biggest entities are centralized custodian coins. But still.. massive disparities in yields and flexibility of moving value around at will does have enough disruptive force that banks and the Federal reserve are racing to both regulate stablecoins and push "CeFi" instiutions into registering as banks themselves, while on the other end legacy finance is moving towards adopting some of these systems themselves.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  Clearing and settlement of securities. https://paxos.com https://paxos.com

verdverm 5y ago

Hyperledger Fabric uses Proof of Authority and is still being used for projects. Being antithetical to the crypto crowd it doesn't get the same fanfare. The target user base is very different. I personally would reach for this tech stack before the permissionless variety, I just don't have anything that needs blockchain.

sanderjd 5y ago
What are some projects it is used for?
- verdverm 5y ago
  Primarily supply chain. https://www.hyperledger.org/learn/case-studies https://www.hyperledger.org/learn/case-studies Understand connecting IRL to BCL (blockchain ledger) is where provenance breaks down. Just because a blockchain says something, does not mean it is true. Just that the data onchain hasn't changed.

PKop 5y ago

Agree, and this quote from the OP's link is humorous in that regard: "While blockchain is best known for its association with cryptocurrencies, it has applications beyond this field." This sentiment is just thrown around without evidence. Either a blockchain has an internal reward mechanism to account for the increased costs associated with it's execution or it is simply a more complicated and expensive database looking for a problem to solve...and also is likely not decentralized.

dogman144 5y ago
Good evidence is git, which is a blockchain (linked list of hashes).
- jcliff 5y ago
  without a way to resolve the canonical version without trusting a singular maintainer, git is not a blockchain. blockchains enforce consensus in a decentralized way, at least public blockchains do or should.
  - dogman144 5y ago
    Well no, blockchain plus consensus algorithm does what you’re describing.
    - jcliff 5y ago
      it's not a blockchain without a consensus algorithm. it's a linked list of hashes.
      - dogman144 5y ago
        While I get what you're referring too, you're drawing from a community wisdom definition vs. any clear technical spec deeming it such, which is what I'm highlighting here. Even the whitepaper calls it "a timestamp network."

snotrockets 5y ago

Considering the prevailing incentives are all criminal, no wonder they failed to "get it" [sic]