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I pretty much only play guitar in nonstandard tunings. Not all of them are oriented around fifths, but they often are at least in part. Repetition of finger po

I pretty much only play guitar in nonstandard tunings. Not all of them are oriented around fifths, but they often are at least in part. Repetition of finger positions across strings is one motivation. While some of the linked comments suggest reachability, the standard guitar tuning affords a lot more for many common guitar styles. But nonstandard tunings open up a lot of other styles because you can use partial fifths on open strings more readily than with standard. Two things I think (particularly) guitarists miss: 1. If you’re not doing chord/scale/mode transitions standard tuning is optimized for, you’re putting a lot of cognitive load either on your playing or your practice. 2. Translating guitar tuning to fifths tuning is a lot easier than vice versa if you’re reading tabs or standard sheet music.

tasty_freeze 5y ago
I've often wondered what guitarists are thinking about when they use alternate tunings. I'm sure if you play in one tuning long enough you can conceptualize how all the notes related to chords and keys, etc. But if you frequently change tunings, when you learn a song does it just become a matter of memorizing finger patterns, or do can your brain actually figure out the mapping such that you are thinking in terms of chords and intervals?
- mabub24 5y ago
  A lot of guitarists have no problem with playing open tunings because they can pretty seamlessly transcribe the notes along one string to the whole tuning, like how the 2nd fret of the low D string in open D is an E note so thus a finger across the whole fret is an "E chord". It's once you get into alternate tunings that are outside the "open tuning" norm that it becomes, at least for me, memorizing finger patterns and getting fine coordination locked in. The theory gets thrown out for "what sounds good" and "hmm that sounded about right".
- eyelidlessness 5y ago
  For me, once I’m playing it’s almost entirely muscle memory. Writing or learning, the tuning doesn’t matter at all it’s just developing that muscle memory. The thing nonstandard tunings does for me is it gives me a base state to work from that lets me use patterns and techniques suited to it. Drop D is very good for bass-heavy fifth chord stuff. CGD--- is really good for fingerstyle techniques. Other weirder tunings like some used by Michael Hedges let you rethink whole chord relationships.
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  Pat Metheny noted recently (0) that although he loves to use alternate tunings, he feels that it takes at least 10 years to really know your way around a given tuning, and thus changing them around impairs your ability to really get deep into your performance/compositional process. (0) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEgalcH_-b4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEgalcH_-b4
  - Zuider 5y ago
    Other players such as Nick Drake, composed on piano, and tuned the guitar to accommodate the composition.
- analog31 5y ago
  When I was a kid, I played cello and bass, which were tuned in 4ths and 5ths. I could go back and forth between the two instruments without batting an eye, including sight reading. I think you just develop two parallel mental circuits, and there are enough sonic and tactile clues that you don't forget which instrument you're playing. After high school I played bass exclusively for almost 40 years, and during the pandemic I got my cello out again. After several weeks, the old circuits started to re-attach themselves again. In my case I'm trying to play jazz on both instruments, which includes improv soloing. Let's just say that's a work in progress. There is still a lot of stuff I can play on bass, that I can't approach on the cello.
mabub24 5y ago
Non standard tunings can be very interesting for song writing, in particular the use of droning notes, or when using playing styles like travis picking. Some of the American primitive players like Fahey, or Rose, and more recently players like Nathan Salsburg, put together really great sounding stuff. > If you’re not doing chord/scale/mode transitions standard tuning is optimized for, you’re putting a lot of cognitive load either on your playing or your practice. I actually find that once you learn something in standard that there is relatively little cognitive load involved. It's more about refining very fine motor skills and coordination between shapes/fingerings. At a certain point the motions become instinctual and the "cognitive load" simply disappears. You just play. It's when I transition between tunings that I feel (initially) very uncomfortable, because I'm relearning those fine motor skills in new patterns to fit the tuning.
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
  With regard to songwriting specifically, I've found that strange tunings are an easy way to knock myself out of my comfort zone. I think a lot of guitarists find themselves in a rut where they're accidentally writing stuff that sounds very similar over and over. All of a sudden it's a bit difficult for me to predict what a chord will sound like before playing it, and as I'm getting aquatinted with the new tuning I run into little happy accidents that might not have been terribly ergonomic (or even possible) in a standard guitar tuning.
  - eyelidlessness 5y ago
    So much this. The most absurd tunings I’ve worked with have helped me rethink even familiar progressions and explore new ideas that wouldn’t occur to me.
- eyelidlessness 5y ago
  > I actually find that once you learn something in standard that there is relatively little cognitive load involved. It's more about refining very fine motor skills and coordination between shapes/fingerings. This is actually the cognitive load I’m talking about. I can do that, and I have, but playing the music I want to play is really challenging because I have to adapt free strings or polyharmonic positions to positions my hands can and will do (and can adapt to do better) but still keep me focused on whether I’m getting the sound out of my instrument the way I want. (Thanks for the name drops, I have a couple artists to check out! Since I’m here talking tunings, my biggest influences are Kelli Rudick and Kaki King)
SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
Probably my favorite example of non-standard guitar tuning is the way Luca Stricagnoli tunes his guitar in his Sweet Child O' Mine cover[1]. He starts with a capo covering half the strings on fret 3, and a SpiderCapo on fret 1, with a spare capo. At 3:45 or so he removes the half capo, and puts the spare capo onto fret 2, transitioning from Major to Minor key. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok5d8nXAngw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok5d8nXAngw

tasty_freeze 5y ago

I've often wondered what guitarists are thinking about when they use alternate tunings. I'm sure if you play in one tuning long enough you can conceptualize how all the notes related to chords and keys, etc. But if you frequently change tunings, when you learn a song does it just become a matter of memorizing finger patterns, or do can your brain actually figure out the mapping such that you are thinking in terms of chords and intervals?

mabub24 5y ago
A lot of guitarists have no problem with playing open tunings because they can pretty seamlessly transcribe the notes along one string to the whole tuning, like how the 2nd fret of the low D string in open D is an E note so thus a finger across the whole fret is an "E chord". It's once you get into alternate tunings that are outside the "open tuning" norm that it becomes, at least for me, memorizing finger patterns and getting fine coordination locked in. The theory gets thrown out for "what sounds good" and "hmm that sounded about right".
eyelidlessness 5y ago
For me, once I’m playing it’s almost entirely muscle memory. Writing or learning, the tuning doesn’t matter at all it’s just developing that muscle memory. The thing nonstandard tunings does for me is it gives me a base state to work from that lets me use patterns and techniques suited to it. Drop D is very good for bass-heavy fifth chord stuff. CGD--- is really good for fingerstyle techniques. Other weirder tunings like some used by Michael Hedges let you rethink whole chord relationships.
PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
Pat Metheny noted recently (0) that although he loves to use alternate tunings, he feels that it takes at least 10 years to really know your way around a given tuning, and thus changing them around impairs your ability to really get deep into your performance/compositional process. (0) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEgalcH_-b4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEgalcH_-b4
- Zuider 5y ago
  Other players such as Nick Drake, composed on piano, and tuned the guitar to accommodate the composition.
analog31 5y ago
When I was a kid, I played cello and bass, which were tuned in 4ths and 5ths. I could go back and forth between the two instruments without batting an eye, including sight reading. I think you just develop two parallel mental circuits, and there are enough sonic and tactile clues that you don't forget which instrument you're playing. After high school I played bass exclusively for almost 40 years, and during the pandemic I got my cello out again. After several weeks, the old circuits started to re-attach themselves again. In my case I'm trying to play jazz on both instruments, which includes improv soloing. Let's just say that's a work in progress. There is still a lot of stuff I can play on bass, that I can't approach on the cello.

mabub24 5y ago

Non standard tunings can be very interesting for song writing, in particular the use of droning notes, or when using playing styles like travis picking. Some of the American primitive players like Fahey, or Rose, and more recently players like Nathan Salsburg, put together really great sounding stuff. > If you’re not doing chord/scale/mode transitions standard tuning is optimized for, you’re putting a lot of cognitive load either on your playing or your practice. I actually find that once you learn something in standard that there is relatively little cognitive load involved. It's more about refining very fine motor skills and coordination between shapes/fingerings. At a certain point the motions become instinctual and the "cognitive load" simply disappears. You just play. It's when I transition between tunings that I feel (initially) very uncomfortable, because I'm relearning those fine motor skills in new patterns to fit the tuning.

rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
With regard to songwriting specifically, I've found that strange tunings are an easy way to knock myself out of my comfort zone. I think a lot of guitarists find themselves in a rut where they're accidentally writing stuff that sounds very similar over and over. All of a sudden it's a bit difficult for me to predict what a chord will sound like before playing it, and as I'm getting aquatinted with the new tuning I run into little happy accidents that might not have been terribly ergonomic (or even possible) in a standard guitar tuning.
- eyelidlessness 5y ago
  So much this. The most absurd tunings I’ve worked with have helped me rethink even familiar progressions and explore new ideas that wouldn’t occur to me.
eyelidlessness 5y ago
> I actually find that once you learn something in standard that there is relatively little cognitive load involved. It's more about refining very fine motor skills and coordination between shapes/fingerings. This is actually the cognitive load I’m talking about. I can do that, and I have, but playing the music I want to play is really challenging because I have to adapt free strings or polyharmonic positions to positions my hands can and will do (and can adapt to do better) but still keep me focused on whether I’m getting the sound out of my instrument the way I want. (Thanks for the name drops, I have a couple artists to check out! Since I’m here talking tunings, my biggest influences are Kelli Rudick and Kaki King)

SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago

Probably my favorite example of non-standard guitar tuning is the way Luca Stricagnoli tunes his guitar in his Sweet Child O' Mine cover[1]. He starts with a capo covering half the strings on fret 3, and a SpiderCapo on fret 1, with a spare capo. At 3:45 or so he removes the half capo, and puts the spare capo onto fret 2, transitioning from Major to Minor key. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok5d8nXAngw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok5d8nXAngw