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But life probably wouldn’t exist if entropy wasn’t increasing Life exists because it increases the entropy in the universe

meowkit 5y ago
> Life exists because it increases the entropy in the universe This is an concise idea I sit on quite often. Is this a commonly known idea? Among scientists/engineers/philosopher types? Would appreciate other thoughts.
- efokschaner 5y ago
  This subject is discussed in the pop sci work of PBS spacetime https://youtu.be/GcfLZSL7YGw https://youtu.be/GcfLZSL7YGw with reference to articles and books if you're looking for more
- monkeycantype 5y ago
  I think so, I've gone back to university to study biology, and I'm encountering two complimentary perspectives on what life is, a pragmatic classification version that says: ok - of the things that we see which ones are alive and which aren't and what are the distinguishing characteristics? and a second definitional version, blending Schroedinger and Shannon, that says life seems to be information propagating itself, but we're not going examine you on that in first year genomics.
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  Yes, we taught this during course 3 thermo @ MIT. The mystery is how the hell the universe started at such low entropy. We can predict the final total maximum entropy of the visible universe, we are about half way there. Life produces entropy, but not as ’efficiently’ as exploding stars.
monkeycantype 5y ago
Yes, in this universe, life as we know it is a salmon of order swimming up the waterfall of entropy, every flick of it tail powered by its shit fouling the river, because life in this universe is spec'd to the constraints of this universe. But perhaps we can't find the aliens because they have tunnelled out, off to another gentler universe where they grow forever in n dimensions of time and space pondering the beauty of all the integers.
- TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
  This is lovely but why would they leave their home? There are very unlikely to find another place equally comfortable to the one in which they evolved.
  - monkeycantype 5y ago
    That's a good question Ted.
TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
> Life exists because it increases the entropy in the universe Life causes entropy, but do you literally mean it exists because it increases entropy? I don’t see the connection, only that life causes entropy. Can you explain?
- systemsignal 5y ago
  Not a great answer but basically everything that occurs in this Universe must increase the overall entropy of the universe (second law) Of course local entropy can decrease, hopefully in a way that is beneficial to our little corner of the universe :) Would recommend Schrodingers “what is life” if interested further in life/entropy

meowkit 5y ago

> Life exists because it increases the entropy in the universe This is an concise idea I sit on quite often. Is this a commonly known idea? Among scientists/engineers/philosopher types? Would appreciate other thoughts.

efokschaner 5y ago
This subject is discussed in the pop sci work of PBS spacetime https://youtu.be/GcfLZSL7YGw https://youtu.be/GcfLZSL7YGw with reference to articles and books if you're looking for more
monkeycantype 5y ago
I think so, I've gone back to university to study biology, and I'm encountering two complimentary perspectives on what life is, a pragmatic classification version that says: ok - of the things that we see which ones are alive and which aren't and what are the distinguishing characteristics? and a second definitional version, blending Schroedinger and Shannon, that says life seems to be information propagating itself, but we're not going examine you on that in first year genomics.
mensetmanusman 5y ago
Yes, we taught this during course 3 thermo @ MIT. The mystery is how the hell the universe started at such low entropy. We can predict the final total maximum entropy of the visible universe, we are about half way there. Life produces entropy, but not as ’efficiently’ as exploding stars.

monkeycantype 5y ago

Yes, in this universe, life as we know it is a salmon of order swimming up the waterfall of entropy, every flick of it tail powered by its shit fouling the river, because life in this universe is spec'd to the constraints of this universe. But perhaps we can't find the aliens because they have tunnelled out, off to another gentler universe where they grow forever in n dimensions of time and space pondering the beauty of all the integers.

TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
This is lovely but why would they leave their home? There are very unlikely to find another place equally comfortable to the one in which they evolved.
- monkeycantype 5y ago
  That's a good question Ted.

TedDoesntTalk 5y ago

> Life exists because it increases the entropy in the universe Life causes entropy, but do you literally mean it exists because it increases entropy? I don’t see the connection, only that life causes entropy. Can you explain?

systemsignal 5y ago
Not a great answer but basically everything that occurs in this Universe must increase the overall entropy of the universe (second law) Of course local entropy can decrease, hopefully in a way that is beneficial to our little corner of the universe :) Would recommend Schrodingers “what is life” if interested further in life/entropy