3 ms·

The funny thing is that any actually bigoted company has a built in out. "Johnson, as the youngest member, the board has decided that you must identify as a wo

The funny thing is that any actually bigoted company has a built in out. "Johnson, as the youngest member, the board has decided that you must identify as a woman for regulatory compliance." What are woke progressives going to do, deny that a man can identify as whatever gender she wants?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
kenjackson 5y ago
I think that gender identity for the purposes of pursuing a loophole would be happily denied. Woke progressives don't pursue their goals simply to say they do, but in order to provide relief to marginalized groups. Unlike conservatives who use it as a shield to try to continue to oppress marginalized groups.
- dinkleberg 5y ago
  That is getting into dangerous territory. How do you prove someone's gender identity? Do you have to declare that with a legal document? Will there be blind tests to make sure you're conforming to your declared identity?
  - kenjackson 5y ago
    Sorry. I thought they were saying they used that gender only for submitting for compliance to this. If they took on being a woman for all legal purposes even if for this loophole then fine.
BrandoElFollito 5y ago
Serious question from a non-American: is this actually possible? Can you just identify as a man on Monday, than a woman on Tuesday? In other words, is sex a flag in your documents, or just something you say to be? I am asking because I read that the racial identification is purely declarative.
- logicalmonster 5y ago
  This is a very nuanced topic that treads on very dangerous grounds on this specific forum, though I am trying my best to remain respectful to all. I think it's important to remember that there's a difference between legal definitions and what the modern, en vogue morality is. (and keep in mind that the modern morality is not defined, but can change over time as new situations emerge) In terms of legal documents such as what sex appears on one's drivers license, I imagine that somebody wanting to change their official sex designation can be done, but would require filing some change request or affidavit with the state. In terms of modern morality, gender identity (gender is considered to be different from biological sex) is considered fluid and may change from day to day. I believe that some people may even choose to identify as non-gender, or multiple genders at once. Racial identification is another question mark, particularly for Americans and is very convoluted. Look at questions 8 and 9 on the Census form as an example of how officialdom tries to determine race. https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial/2020/technical-documentation/questionnaires-and-instructions/questionnaires/2020-informational-questionnaire.pdf https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial/2020/tech... In America particularly, laws based on race are really dumb. What the hell do you do with somebody who is a mix of white and black or is a white person with a hispanic background? Do we need government committees to try and determine if somebody is too white to qualify for some job? As far as the modern morality goes, there are some number of people who self-identify as trans-racial and seem to identify with a different racial group. I don't know what will come of that.
  - BrandoElFollito 5y ago
    > legal documents such as what sex appears on one's drivers license So there is a formal place where someone's sex is "assigned" (at birth, I presume). In other words you cannot claim for cases with a legal consequence that you are a man when it says "woman" in your papers. i understand that you can declare yourself as whatever, but it does not change your rights and onbligations. > Racial identification is another question mark, particularly for Americans and is very convoluted Is there a similar thing for races? Is this "objectively" assigned (though your ancestry, for instance), or is it purely declarative (I am white, but declare to be black and therefore get access to, say, minority advantages)? In France we legally have a few things that are non-discutable and part of you papers (sex, nationality, marial status, ...). This an change, of course, but requires going through a procedure that changes what is in the papers. We do not have anything "declarative" that would have a legal meaning (and that would open the door to advantages for instance)

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

kenjackson 5y ago

I think that gender identity for the purposes of pursuing a loophole would be happily denied. Woke progressives don't pursue their goals simply to say they do, but in order to provide relief to marginalized groups. Unlike conservatives who use it as a shield to try to continue to oppress marginalized groups.

dinkleberg 5y ago
That is getting into dangerous territory. How do you prove someone's gender identity? Do you have to declare that with a legal document? Will there be blind tests to make sure you're conforming to your declared identity?
- kenjackson 5y ago
  Sorry. I thought they were saying they used that gender only for submitting for compliance to this. If they took on being a woman for all legal purposes even if for this loophole then fine.

BrandoElFollito 5y ago

Serious question from a non-American: is this actually possible? Can you just identify as a man on Monday, than a woman on Tuesday? In other words, is sex a flag in your documents, or just something you say to be? I am asking because I read that the racial identification is purely declarative.

logicalmonster 5y ago
This is a very nuanced topic that treads on very dangerous grounds on this specific forum, though I am trying my best to remain respectful to all. I think it's important to remember that there's a difference between legal definitions and what the modern, en vogue morality is. (and keep in mind that the modern morality is not defined, but can change over time as new situations emerge) In terms of legal documents such as what sex appears on one's drivers license, I imagine that somebody wanting to change their official sex designation can be done, but would require filing some change request or affidavit with the state. In terms of modern morality, gender identity (gender is considered to be different from biological sex) is considered fluid and may change from day to day. I believe that some people may even choose to identify as non-gender, or multiple genders at once. Racial identification is another question mark, particularly for Americans and is very convoluted. Look at questions 8 and 9 on the Census form as an example of how officialdom tries to determine race. https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial/2020/technical-documentation/questionnaires-and-instructions/questionnaires/2020-informational-questionnaire.pdf https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial/2020/tech... In America particularly, laws based on race are really dumb. What the hell do you do with somebody who is a mix of white and black or is a white person with a hispanic background? Do we need government committees to try and determine if somebody is too white to qualify for some job? As far as the modern morality goes, there are some number of people who self-identify as trans-racial and seem to identify with a different racial group. I don't know what will come of that.
- BrandoElFollito 5y ago
  > legal documents such as what sex appears on one's drivers license So there is a formal place where someone's sex is "assigned" (at birth, I presume). In other words you cannot claim for cases with a legal consequence that you are a man when it says "woman" in your papers. i understand that you can declare yourself as whatever, but it does not change your rights and onbligations. > Racial identification is another question mark, particularly for Americans and is very convoluted Is there a similar thing for races? Is this "objectively" assigned (though your ancestry, for instance), or is it purely declarative (I am white, but declare to be black and therefore get access to, say, minority advantages)? In France we legally have a few things that are non-discutable and part of you papers (sex, nationality, marial status, ...). This an change, of course, but requires going through a procedure that changes what is in the papers. We do not have anything "declarative" that would have a legal meaning (and that would open the door to advantages for instance)