13 ms·

Ludum Dare 49 (Game jam)

116 points by mooman219 5y ago

kris-s 5y ago
If you've never tried programming a game I would highly recommend it. There are many aspects that make a game a really interesting challenge: input, rendering, sound, and managing large global mutable state. Ludum Dare is a good excuse to dip your toes in.
- caeril 5y ago
  LD doesn't help learn any of this. The time constraints force most entrants to use Unity, GameMaker, or some other framework/engine that abstracts learning about any of this stuff away. If your object is to learn, better to try out Handmade Hero, entirely from scratch: https://handmadehero.org/ https://handmadehero.org/
  - spywaregorilla 5y ago
    If you think using an engine means you're not going to need to worry about these things, you're going to have a bad time. Make games, not engines. If you want to make games, make games, not engines.
  - jbluepolarbear 5y ago
    Making your own engine is definitely a good learning experience, but it’s not required for making a game. Game engines are tools for making games, they don’t make the game for you.
    - seba_dos1 5y ago
      You don't even have to "make your own game engine" - often you just take a windowing library, optionally with some barebones renderer (like SDL or Allegro) and simply make a game without an engine. This approach was very common at the beginnings of compos/jams like Ludum Dare, it only changed somewhat recently with increasing popularity of ready-made engines.
  - Uehreka 5y ago
    The time constraints of AAA game dev force many entrants to use Unity too ;)
  - Lerc 5y ago
    I have done Ludum dares on and off since #6. I have yet to use anything like unity. Closest to a framework would have been using OpenFL which is a Haxe cross-target reimplementation of the Flash API. For the last few I just do VanillaJS on canvas.
  - tinco 5y ago
    I've done all of those things every time I participated in Ludum Dare, and I've used a game engine only once. The time constraints make you pick your battles. You have to pick technology you're fluent in, but there are great input/output libraries for games for literally every language out there. I picked Javascript, and even did one in 3D with a procedural audio track that was affected by the plays. One time I decided to make a multiplayer game on a hexagonal grid. Just getting the hexagonal grid working took me over half of the time, didnt produce much of a game at all that time, but it was still fun, it's ok to fail.
    - merpnderp 5y ago
      What libraries did you use in JavaScript? Three.js or a game engine or just WebGL?
      - tinco 5y ago
        Three.js
  - echelon 5y ago
    I did a non-Ludum Dare weekend game jam, and I built this: https://github.com/echelon/laser-asteroids https://github.com/echelon/laser-asteroids No unity, no unreal, no engine. Learned it all as I went. Game jams are a fantastic time and place to learn.
  - Laremere 5y ago
    Ludum Dare actually outdates Unity ;) I've done it 8 times, once with GameMaker, twice with Unity, and the rest were custom.
  - otikik 5y ago
    I agree that LD is not the right time to learn how to do pointer arithmetic, or how to draw a pixel. What the time constraint teach you is to adjust to a time budget. Wear many hats. Improvise. And Finish Stuff. All very valuable lessons that will help any developer. There's a healthy and beautiful spectrum of tools and languages out there between the "all included" of Unity and the aridness of plain C. Have you tried Löve? It abstracts a lot, but a lot of what it abstracts is really not that important for making games, in my opinion.
    - wheybags 5y ago
      +1 for love2d, have done several ludum dares with it, and I can honestly say it's the perfect tool for the job.
  - stolen_biscuit 5y ago
    This comment is wrong. You still learn all those things using a game engine. You don't have to write your game in pure C and handle everything from first principles to learn how to manage those aspects of game development.
- tmountain 5y ago
  Especially once you realize the difference between super purpose drive micro game code (a big event loop with lots of variables at the top) and game code with well designed scaffolding (entity component systems, etc). I think everyone is destined to make at least one gobbledegook game before they can appreciate all the benefits that a well designed system brings. I recommend pico-8 or similarly designed constraint driven virtual consoles to maximize the learning experience.
- poulpy123 5y ago
  I doubt a normal person can learn all that and produce something interesting in just 48h
  - beebmam 5y ago
    I agree with this sentiment. A little toe dip can't hurt though :)
  - Rd6n6 5y ago
    My favourite are the 10-14 day jams. You can make something really cool with that kind of time limit. I used a jam last year that allowed pre existing code to make a little playable scenario out of my projects game systems and it was wicked for feedback about game feel. Before that, made a little village builder game from scratch. 2 days though? I don’t know what I would do, its not much time
    - martinmakesgame 5y ago
      For something that feels decent enough to share the minimum for myself is three weeks. Functional and verification testing is really important, and then deployment testing after that. These take time. I look at the experiences of Phil Strahl and I find it really interesting to see from year to year how his experiences with Ludum Dare have changed and what he has learned. It does seem like familiarity with tools is really important. I like his joke in his Ludum Dare 45 post mortem about how his game launches, testing over, passed. Getting older I know that having enough sleep is really important for having a beautiful day the next day. I'm not sure how compatible getting enough sleep is with a 48 hour hard limit. Looking after physical health and mental well-being seems really important at this stage in my life. I'm glad that people can get enjoyment out of participating in Ludum Dare and I know everyone's experience will be different because everyone is different. I wish generally people felt less stressed because some of the limits we place on ourselves are optional. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUMFVcnkIM5L4V8fA24C51g https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUMFVcnkIM5L4V8fA24C51g
      - tpxl 5y ago
mooman219 5y ago
I'm always excited to see what comes out of these game jams and seeing how people ship their one off game. I've noticed games with web versions typically rate higher than games with only locally executable versions (for obvious reasons). Web games being compiled into wasm also frequently handroll a lot of standard library logic that doesn't otherwise work out of the box, and I'm looking forward to seeing what they come up with.
rex64 5y ago
Ludum Dare has a special place in my heart. Participating in game jams is a great way to practice creating games from start to finish. If you're interested, I wrote a post recounting my experience participating in Ludum Dare: https://alessandrocuzzocrea.com/ludum-dare-47/ https://alessandrocuzzocrea.com/ludum-dare-47/
- Rd6n6 5y ago
  I don’t know about start to finish, since finishing a real game is a massive task, but it’s a good way to learn a specific subtopic of interest. My own game I figure has 16-24 months of full time work to go on it. Even though it looks fairly full featured at the moment, “finishing” it is still a huge task
  - rex64 5y ago
    I agree that large projects have different challenges than small ones. Learning how to successfully manage and complete a large project is definitely something that needs hands-on experience and cannot be completely replaced by doing lots of small projects instead. That said, the core process is the same and, especially for beginners, doing many small projects instead of one large one is important to become familiar with the gamedev process and get as much practice as possible in the shortest amount of time.
AshleysBrain 5y ago
Shameless plug: our game creation tool Construct 3 is free to use with the full features for the duration of Ludum Dare 49: https://www.construct.net/en/blogs/construct-official-blog-1/ludum-dare-once-again-free-1572 https://www.construct.net/en/blogs/construct-official-blog-1...
- Rd6n6 5y ago
  I don’t know why an entrepreneurship forum would downvote somebody for linking to their topic relevant tool. People need to share their projects and products somewhere. It’s a good opportunity to discuss things around the ecosystem if nothing else
  - turtlebits 5y ago
    A company promoting a 4 day time specific trial of their product is just advertisement.
    - tpxl 5y ago
      An actual, honest to god, _relevant_ advertisement, unlike every other one I've seen in the past week.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - tobr 5y ago
    > an entrepreneurship forum Right, that’s why the site is called ‘Entrepreneur News’.
    - Kiro 5y ago
      It used to be called Startup News. https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html
- ngold 5y ago
  I created the /r/construct3, let me know if you have a mod team that wants to take over. I really enjoyed programming an entire games in construct 2 in 100 lines of code. A decade ago http://violetgaming.byethost10.com/MartyOmegaFull/index.html http://violetgaming.byethost10.com/MartyOmegaFull/index.html http://violetgaming.byethost10.com/PhysicFalls/index.html http://violetgaming.byethost10.com/PhysicFalls/index.html
ArtWomb 5y ago
The "unstability" property can be added to any existing game, with the single pass of a vertex shader ;) Some themes simply lend themselves to engendering more "creativity" than others. I knew it was going to be "unstable", because it's universally hated / feared. But was chagrined to see "One tool, Many uses". It's really the ideal theme for a game jam with time constraint. The inspiration just flows. And really the themes are vague enough to get away with anything.
- postalrat 5y ago
  I think a lot of people vote for themes based on well their existing projects can be modified to fit the theme.
xwdv 5y ago
It’s my opinion that good games for these sorts of competitions start off as sketches and high fidelity random mock-ups of screenshots of interesting potential games, and then imagining what the possible game mechanics and objectives of it would be. Start with the end in mind or you’ll fall into feature creep.
sail0rm00n 5y ago
For any Golang programmers, I highly recommend checking out Ebiten: https://ebiten.org/ https://ebiten.org/ You’re able to cross-compile to mobile + web as well so you’re not just stuck on the desktop.
olliej 5y ago
I think I could achieve the unstable concept reasonably easily :)
ensiferum 5y ago
Been working on a 2D game engine. I haven't "show HN" it yet because there is still some work to before MVP. Sadly for LD you really need a browser game basically.feedback appreciated https://github.com/ensisoft/gamestudio https://github.com/ensisoft/gamestudio
- meheleventyone 5y ago
  This looks super cool and polished for an engine made by one person. You should put an image of the IDE higher up the readme though, it’ll help people browsing evaluate it immediately more than a bullet list of features. When I’m evaluating an engine I also like some kind of high level overview of how games are made in it. You have some of that mixed in with more how-to levels of detail. Pulling out that high level info into a short intro will help attract people when you’re ready for more eyes. Looking forward to seeing this pop up again on HN!
  - ensiferum 5y ago
    Thanks for the feedback! :)
Jare 5y ago
I can never be sure if I can participate, real life puts many constraints on availability (and quality) of free time. But I try. I usually tweet a "game design document" on saturday evening, and try to squeeze 5-8 hours over the weekend to get something done. I always try to keep the games web based and compatible with mobile. This entry: https://twitter.com/TheJare/status/1444240947487944707 https://twitter.com/TheJare/status/1444240947487944707 Previous: https://ldjam.com/users/jare/games https://ldjam.com/users/jare/games

116 points by mooman219 5y ago

If you've never tried programming a game I would highly recommend it. There are many aspects that make a game a really interesting challenge: input, rendering, sound, and managing large global mutable state. Ludum Dare is a good excuse to dip your toes in.

caeril 5y ago
LD doesn't help learn any of this. The time constraints force most entrants to use Unity, GameMaker, or some other framework/engine that abstracts learning about any of this stuff away. If your object is to learn, better to try out Handmade Hero, entirely from scratch: https://handmadehero.org/ https://handmadehero.org/
- spywaregorilla 5y ago
  If you think using an engine means you're not going to need to worry about these things, you're going to have a bad time. Make games, not engines. If you want to make games, make games, not engines.
- jbluepolarbear 5y ago
  Making your own engine is definitely a good learning experience, but it’s not required for making a game. Game engines are tools for making games, they don’t make the game for you.
  - seba_dos1 5y ago
    You don't even have to "make your own game engine" - often you just take a windowing library, optionally with some barebones renderer (like SDL or Allegro) and simply make a game without an engine. This approach was very common at the beginnings of compos/jams like Ludum Dare, it only changed somewhat recently with increasing popularity of ready-made engines.
- Uehreka 5y ago
  The time constraints of AAA game dev force many entrants to use Unity too ;)
- Lerc 5y ago
  I have done Ludum dares on and off since #6. I have yet to use anything like unity. Closest to a framework would have been using OpenFL which is a Haxe cross-target reimplementation of the Flash API. For the last few I just do VanillaJS on canvas.
- tinco 5y ago
  I've done all of those things every time I participated in Ludum Dare, and I've used a game engine only once. The time constraints make you pick your battles. You have to pick technology you're fluent in, but there are great input/output libraries for games for literally every language out there. I picked Javascript, and even did one in 3D with a procedural audio track that was affected by the plays. One time I decided to make a multiplayer game on a hexagonal grid. Just getting the hexagonal grid working took me over half of the time, didnt produce much of a game at all that time, but it was still fun, it's ok to fail.
  - merpnderp 5y ago
    What libraries did you use in JavaScript? Three.js or a game engine or just WebGL?
    - tinco 5y ago
      Three.js
- echelon 5y ago
  I did a non-Ludum Dare weekend game jam, and I built this: https://github.com/echelon/laser-asteroids https://github.com/echelon/laser-asteroids No unity, no unreal, no engine. Learned it all as I went. Game jams are a fantastic time and place to learn.
- Laremere 5y ago
  Ludum Dare actually outdates Unity ;) I've done it 8 times, once with GameMaker, twice with Unity, and the rest were custom.
- otikik 5y ago
  I agree that LD is not the right time to learn how to do pointer arithmetic, or how to draw a pixel. What the time constraint teach you is to adjust to a time budget. Wear many hats. Improvise. And Finish Stuff. All very valuable lessons that will help any developer. There's a healthy and beautiful spectrum of tools and languages out there between the "all included" of Unity and the aridness of plain C. Have you tried Löve? It abstracts a lot, but a lot of what it abstracts is really not that important for making games, in my opinion.
  - wheybags 5y ago
    +1 for love2d, have done several ludum dares with it, and I can honestly say it's the perfect tool for the job.
- stolen_biscuit 5y ago
  This comment is wrong. You still learn all those things using a game engine. You don't have to write your game in pure C and handle everything from first principles to learn how to manage those aspects of game development.
tmountain 5y ago
Especially once you realize the difference between super purpose drive micro game code (a big event loop with lots of variables at the top) and game code with well designed scaffolding (entity component systems, etc). I think everyone is destined to make at least one gobbledegook game before they can appreciate all the benefits that a well designed system brings. I recommend pico-8 or similarly designed constraint driven virtual consoles to maximize the learning experience.
poulpy123 5y ago
I doubt a normal person can learn all that and produce something interesting in just 48h
- beebmam 5y ago
  I agree with this sentiment. A little toe dip can't hurt though :)
- Rd6n6 5y ago
  My favourite are the 10-14 day jams. You can make something really cool with that kind of time limit. I used a jam last year that allowed pre existing code to make a little playable scenario out of my projects game systems and it was wicked for feedback about game feel. Before that, made a little village builder game from scratch. 2 days though? I don’t know what I would do, its not much time
  - martinmakesgame 5y ago
    For something that feels decent enough to share the minimum for myself is three weeks. Functional and verification testing is really important, and then deployment testing after that. These take time. I look at the experiences of Phil Strahl and I find it really interesting to see from year to year how his experiences with Ludum Dare have changed and what he has learned. It does seem like familiarity with tools is really important. I like his joke in his Ludum Dare 45 post mortem about how his game launches, testing over, passed. Getting older I know that having enough sleep is really important for having a beautiful day the next day. I'm not sure how compatible getting enough sleep is with a 48 hour hard limit. Looking after physical health and mental well-being seems really important at this stage in my life. I'm glad that people can get enjoyment out of participating in Ludum Dare and I know everyone's experience will be different because everyone is different. I wish generally people felt less stressed because some of the limits we place on ourselves are optional. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUMFVcnkIM5L4V8fA24C51g https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUMFVcnkIM5L4V8fA24C51g
    - tpxl 5y ago

mooman219 5y ago

I'm always excited to see what comes out of these game jams and seeing how people ship their one off game. I've noticed games with web versions typically rate higher than games with only locally executable versions (for obvious reasons). Web games being compiled into wasm also frequently handroll a lot of standard library logic that doesn't otherwise work out of the box, and I'm looking forward to seeing what they come up with.

rex64 5y ago

Ludum Dare has a special place in my heart. Participating in game jams is a great way to practice creating games from start to finish. If you're interested, I wrote a post recounting my experience participating in Ludum Dare: https://alessandrocuzzocrea.com/ludum-dare-47/ https://alessandrocuzzocrea.com/ludum-dare-47/

Rd6n6 5y ago
I don’t know about start to finish, since finishing a real game is a massive task, but it’s a good way to learn a specific subtopic of interest. My own game I figure has 16-24 months of full time work to go on it. Even though it looks fairly full featured at the moment, “finishing” it is still a huge task
- rex64 5y ago
  I agree that large projects have different challenges than small ones. Learning how to successfully manage and complete a large project is definitely something that needs hands-on experience and cannot be completely replaced by doing lots of small projects instead. That said, the core process is the same and, especially for beginners, doing many small projects instead of one large one is important to become familiar with the gamedev process and get as much practice as possible in the shortest amount of time.

AshleysBrain 5y ago

Shameless plug: our game creation tool Construct 3 is free to use with the full features for the duration of Ludum Dare 49: https://www.construct.net/en/blogs/construct-official-blog-1/ludum-dare-once-again-free-1572 https://www.construct.net/en/blogs/construct-official-blog-1...

Rd6n6 5y ago
I don’t know why an entrepreneurship forum would downvote somebody for linking to their topic relevant tool. People need to share their projects and products somewhere. It’s a good opportunity to discuss things around the ecosystem if nothing else
- turtlebits 5y ago
  A company promoting a 4 day time specific trial of their product is just advertisement.
  - tpxl 5y ago
    An actual, honest to god, _relevant_ advertisement, unlike every other one I've seen in the past week.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- tobr 5y ago
  > an entrepreneurship forum Right, that’s why the site is called ‘Entrepreneur News’.
  - Kiro 5y ago
    It used to be called Startup News. https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html
ngold 5y ago
I created the /r/construct3, let me know if you have a mod team that wants to take over. I really enjoyed programming an entire games in construct 2 in 100 lines of code. A decade ago http://violetgaming.byethost10.com/MartyOmegaFull/index.html http://violetgaming.byethost10.com/MartyOmegaFull/index.html http://violetgaming.byethost10.com/PhysicFalls/index.html http://violetgaming.byethost10.com/PhysicFalls/index.html

ArtWomb 5y ago

The "unstability" property can be added to any existing game, with the single pass of a vertex shader ;) Some themes simply lend themselves to engendering more "creativity" than others. I knew it was going to be "unstable", because it's universally hated / feared. But was chagrined to see "One tool, Many uses". It's really the ideal theme for a game jam with time constraint. The inspiration just flows. And really the themes are vague enough to get away with anything.

postalrat 5y ago
I think a lot of people vote for themes based on well their existing projects can be modified to fit the theme.

xwdv 5y ago

It’s my opinion that good games for these sorts of competitions start off as sketches and high fidelity random mock-ups of screenshots of interesting potential games, and then imagining what the possible game mechanics and objectives of it would be. Start with the end in mind or you’ll fall into feature creep.

sail0rm00n 5y ago

For any Golang programmers, I highly recommend checking out Ebiten: https://ebiten.org/ https://ebiten.org/ You’re able to cross-compile to mobile + web as well so you’re not just stuck on the desktop.

olliej 5y ago

I think I could achieve the unstable concept reasonably easily :)

ensiferum 5y ago

Been working on a 2D game engine. I haven't "show HN" it yet because there is still some work to before MVP. Sadly for LD you really need a browser game basically.feedback appreciated https://github.com/ensisoft/gamestudio https://github.com/ensisoft/gamestudio

meheleventyone 5y ago
This looks super cool and polished for an engine made by one person. You should put an image of the IDE higher up the readme though, it’ll help people browsing evaluate it immediately more than a bullet list of features. When I’m evaluating an engine I also like some kind of high level overview of how games are made in it. You have some of that mixed in with more how-to levels of detail. Pulling out that high level info into a short intro will help attract people when you’re ready for more eyes. Looking forward to seeing this pop up again on HN!
- ensiferum 5y ago
  Thanks for the feedback! :)

Jare 5y ago

I can never be sure if I can participate, real life puts many constraints on availability (and quality) of free time. But I try. I usually tweet a "game design document" on saturday evening, and try to squeeze 5-8 hours over the weekend to get something done. I always try to keep the games web based and compatible with mobile. This entry: https://twitter.com/TheJare/status/1444240947487944707 https://twitter.com/TheJare/status/1444240947487944707 Previous: https://ldjam.com/users/jare/games https://ldjam.com/users/jare/games